pre-3.2.0

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pre-3.2.0

Post by bojster » Sat Jan 01, 2005 11:38 pm

Ok, so there are no bugs (yet ;-), but I didn't know where to start this thread... I'm now testing the levels that used to be unsolvable and they seem fine so far (detailed list will follow soon). But I just wanted to say two things concerning this pre-release..
1. I opt for level directories to be named differently than the old ones, so that the tapes won't get mixed up. In fact e.g. Bondmines *are* named differently (used to be emc_bondmine_01, is emc_bond_mine_01), but that's not what I mean. I think it would be better to change the prefix, like oemc (as in 'original') or sth like that.
2. The graphics (especially the animations) seem to be messed up quite a lot in the original levels. Not to mention sand being green... Why's that? Maybe it compiled wrong for me?
[edit] I compiled target sdl rather than X11 and the animations got fixed. I have no idea why it's that way, X11 was fine in 3.1.0. One thing that stayed (but I guess it's specific for the engine) that objects go into each other rather than just collide (e.g. spaceship replaces the player like in chess and only after that there's an explosion) - weird.

edit: Some more things:
1. The movements (and snapping) are very slow... makes it hard to get through some points when you have to be quick... (like when placing a dynamite and running away from it)
2. Loading of the tape is veeeeeeery slow (almost real time or longer ;-)
3. The game skips to the main screen when asking whether to load or overwrite the tape, in the former case it causes that when the tape loads and stops, player can't see the level until he/she hits space to unpause - very unhandy. (edit: this problem also vanished after I compiled sdl target)
4. When holding two arrows (e.g. down and right) while moving, the movement is 'skippy' - player stops after each step. It wasn't so in 3.1.0 and I often use it, because it makes taking curves quicker ;-)
Last edited by bojster on Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:25 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post by bojster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:41 am

OK, so here is the list of resolved and unresolved issues I've tested so far. I'll edit the list when I find something new... Some descriptions might sound awkward, but I'm not going to write a book about every levelset, so just run a level and see what it's about ;-)

emc_bond_mine_01 - level 17 - the spaceship now goes along the sand rather than in the square
emc_bond_mine_02 - testing
emc_bond_mine_03 - testing
emc_bond_mine_04 - level 12 - the stones now 'sink' into the magic wall even after the chamber beneath is full
emc_bond_mine_05 - level 37 - the stone falls quicker, so the magic wall doesn't run too short
emc_bond_mine_06 - all levels were solvable
emc_bond_mine_07_5 - level 44 - the "?" objects turns out to be a rolling stone! ;-)
emc_bond_mine_08 - level 00 - similarly as in 7_5, but "?" is a rolling red bomb this time
emc_bond_mine_09 - level 61 - kick-start succeeds in the new engine :-)
emc_bond_mine_10 - levelset not present before
emc_bond_mine_11 - level 39 - bombs now do blow up the wall
emc_bond_mine_12 - testing
emc_bond_mine_13 - testing
emc_bond_mine_14 - levelset not present before
emc_bond_mine_15_xmas2 - levelset not present before
emc_bond_mine_16 - levelset not present before
emc_bond_mine_17 - levelset not present before
emc_bond_mine_18 - levelset not present before
emc_down_under_mine_01 to emc_down_under_mine_13 - untested and/or not present before
emc_down_under_mine_14 - level 11 - spaceships go into the acid, which makes the level solvable!
emc_down_under_mine_16 to emc_down_under_mine_21 - untested and/or not present before
emc_emerald_dash_1 - UNRESOLVED - still 1 emerald present out of 2 needed
emc_emerald_dash_2 - levelset not present before
emc_emerald_dash_3 - levelset not present before
emc_emerald_mine_01 - untested
emc_emerald_mine_02 - untested
emc_emerald_mine_03 - untested
emc_emerald_mine_03_pro - untested
emc_emerald_mine_04 - untested
emc_emerald_mine_04_pro - untested
emc_emerald_mine_04_pro_extra - level 19 - bomb falling now ok
emc_emerald_mine_05 - levelset different than emc_emerald_mine_05 present in RnD, emc_emerald_mine_05_cd is the
correct one... see below
emc_emerald_mine_05_cd - level 32 - bombs now blow up correctly
emc_emerald_mine_06 - level 09 - bombs now blow up correctly
emc_emerald_mine_07 to emc_emerald_mine_22 - untested
emc_emerald_mine_original_01 - no known issues
emc_emerald_mine_original_02 - levelset not present before
emc_emerald_mine_original_03 - levelset not present before
emc_emerald_mine_pro - levelset not present before

Summarizing: the problems that have been solved with the new engine include:
* movement of the objects (spaceships, bugs, falling stones and bombs, also player)
* correct objects in place of "?", BUT some question mars stayed! (testing some of these levels now)
* changed behaviour of acid (spaceships moving into) and magic wall (stones 'sinking' in it even when there's no space below)

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Post by bojster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 2:05 am

At first I coulnd't believed it, so I tested it several times with different levelsets, with the same result:
Entering the (open) exit KILLS the player :-D Now that's what I call a BUG :-D
Additionally, 'pause before end' doesn't work (can't be enabled) when loading the tape.

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Post by Flumminator » Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:01 am

* game seems not to recognize player's death: tape recorder is still running and i cannot resart hitting return.
* like bojster already said: entering the open exit won't finish the level but (as it seems) kill the player
* maybe it's just me, but i'm not able to place dynamite neither by hitting the snap-button for a short time nor anyway else
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Post by Holger » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:07 pm

> 1. I opt for level directories to be named differently than the old ones, so that the tapes won't
> get mixed up. In fact e.g. Bondmines *are* named differently (used to be emc_bondmine_01, is
> emc_bond_mine_01), but that's not what I mean. I think it would be better to change the
> prefix, like oemc (as in 'original') or sth like that.

Hmmm... Generally, it would be sufficient (and probably best) to just delete (or move to a different location) all tapes for the emc_* levels, as they will all be replaced with the new native ones, invalidating all existing tapes for them. But I'll think about it...

> 2. The graphics (especially the animations) seem to be messed up quite a lot in the original
> levels.

Could you please be more precise here? As I always use the X11 version for testing, this should not happen.

> Not to mention sand being green... Why's that? Maybe it compiled wrong for me?

No, that's "by intention". The EMC engine has two types of "sand": The original one (which is called "dirt" there), and a new (green) one, which is called "grass" there. The "sand" in all original levels is translated to "grass" in the new engine for some strange reason. At least for the "real" EMC levels (like "bond mine" etc.), this won't change (as it was also green there), but will be adjusted by custom (original) graphics for the classic original EM sets.

> [edit] I compiled target sdl rather than X11 and the animations got fixed. I have no idea
> why it's that way, X11 was fine in 3.1.0.

It should also be fine in 3.2.0 -- please help with a more detailed problem report so that I can fix it. For me, the X11 version is as nearly as important as the SDL version (and, as mentioned, my main working version).

> One thing that stayed (but I guess it's specific for
> the engine) that objects go into each other rather than just collide (e.g. spaceship replaces
> the player like in chess and only after that there's an explosion) - weird.

Yes, you're right -- that's a specific behaviour of the native EM engine and was the same in the original Emerald Mine (and also in the Emerald Mine Club's rewritten engine).

> 1. The movements (and snapping) are very slow... makes it hard to get through some
> points when you have to be quick... (like when placing a dynamite and running away from it)

That's right. This is also 100% "original" behavior and one of the main differences of the new EM engine compared to the R'n'D engine. While the R'n'D engine (and also the original Supaplex game) have asynchronous element handling (which means that the player can move at any time independently from other elements), the EM engine (and also the BD game) have a synchronous engine, which allows emelents and also the player to only move every eight frames. Although this is a maximum delay of only 0,16 seconds, it's indeed noticable (especially when you're used to asynchronous engines like R'n'D and Supaplex).

> 2. Loading of the tape is veeeeeeery slow (almost real time or longer ;-)

Oops?! Really? Would have expected this otherwise... I'll check this.

> 3. The game skips to the main screen when asking whether to load or overwrite the tape, in
> the former case it causes that when the tape loads and stops, player can't see the level until
> he/she hits space to unpause - very unhandy. (edit: this problem also vanished after I
> compiled sdl target)

Oops... I'll check this, too. (Although I'm not 100% sure it I understand the problem.)

> 4. When holding two arrows (e.g. down and right) while moving, the movement is 'skippy'
> - player stops after each step. It wasn't so in 3.1.0 and I often use it, because it makes
> taking curves quicker ;-)

With "it wasn't so in 3.1.0", you mean "it is not so in the R'n'D engine" -- always remember that R'n'D now has two different engines! :-)

But you're right: The new EM engine indeed has a slightly strange handling of this situation. Currently it's 100% like in the original game.

This is one of the points that should be discussed here. Should we stay with 100% original behaviour, or should we adjust this to "normal" (expected from R'n'D engine) behaviour?
I won't expect any levels being easier or harder by this change (besides making levels easier of course due to more "expected" behaviour -- I also don't like this and regularly get killed because I expected the player to move faster in certain situations.)

But it's an engine change, and we should be careful to change things here.

> emc_emerald_mine_05 - levelset different than emc_emerald_mine_05 present in RnD,
> emc_emerald_mine_05_cd is the correct one... see below

Interesting... I found to have two different versions of "EM 05", so I named the one from the Emerald Mines CDROM to "EM 05 cd"...

> * correct objects in place of "?", BUT some question mars stayed! (testing some of these
> levels now)

If I remember correctly, at least in one case this indeed was a "?" sign which was changed to a different graphic. If you find out which set it is, I'll check this.

> At first I coulnd't believed it, so I tested it several times with different levelsets, with the
> same result:
> Entering the (open) exit KILLS the player :-D Now that's what I call a BUG :-D

Yes, that's funny. The real problem here is that the tape does not stop. I'm just not sure at the moment if the level is counted as "solved" or not, but I'll check this.

Besides that, in original EM, the player indeed "explodes" when entering the exit. (The level is counted as "solved" after that, of course.)

> Additionally, 'pause before end' doesn't work (can't be enabled) when loading the tape.

That will also be checked. Thanks for noting it.

> * game seems not to recognize player's death: tape recorder is still running and i cannot
> resart hitting return.

See above. That will be fixed.

> * like bojster already said: entering the open exit won't finish the level but (as it seems) kill
> the player

So the level is not counted as "solved"?! That's indeed a nasty thing that I will then fix soon!

> * maybe it's just me, but i'm not able to place dynamite neither by hitting the snap-button
> for a short time nor anyway else

Hmm, this works fine for me. Holding down the "snap" button (default left "Ctrl") for a few seconds places the dynamite. bojster, does this work for you?

This is another behaviour that should be discussed. The original EM works with a joystick with one button (well, two buttons with the same function ;-) ). So, to also have "snap" and "drop", it uses "fire+direction" for snapping, and "holding fire a short time" for dropping the dynamite. This is not really needed now, but would be a noticable change in the engine. Especially, this would make some levels quite a bit easier, as placing dynamite was always a task in EM that was a bit hairy (good timing needed). This would now be easier, and you would be able to run and drop dynamite at the same time withoutn stopping, which was not possible in EM/EMC. Any opinions or advice here?
Last edited by Holger on Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Flumminator » Sun Jan 02, 2005 1:58 pm

> Hmm, this works fine for me. Holding down the "snap" button (default left
> "Ctrl") for a few seconds places the dynamite.

Yes works fine. My fault was that I didn't expect the "short time" mentioned in the anouncement lasting longer than a second... :oops:

New bugs:
* collected keys are not displayed in the status window
* animation of amoeba drops is quite strange (e.g. original EM level 4)
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Post by bojster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:26 pm

> Hmmm... Generally, it would be sufficient (and probably best) to just delete (or move to a different location) all tapes for the emc_* levels, as they will all be replaced with the new native ones, invalidating all existing tapes for them. But I'll think about it...

I think that this kind of 'simple replacement' is a bad idea - would I have to manually check every tape just to see if it's an old one or a new one? Besides, as for now, I can have both old and new EMC-packs in my levels (e.g. in different directories), but the tape directories overlap! That can cause a mess.
Since we brought it up, I have to say that the tape savedirs naming convention have always concerned me: e.g. the latest Richard's levels save their tapes in
Episode 1, 2 and 3. That means nobody can use these directories, or the tapes will overlap causing havoc! I'd say that's very inconvenient, and the probability that it causes some harm grows with the growing number of level contributors...
Also, is there a possibility to change the config directory? I didn't find a switch for it, and it could be useful esp. for testing purposes.

> Could you please be more precise here? As I always use the X11 version for testing, this should not happen.

In X11 the animation is broken. It's hard to describe, but mostly it's thet the objects (eg. dropping amoeba or spaceships) repeat the movement so it looks like they were going forth, warped back, going forth, and so on. As for the player - it just disappears or blinks (like a broken layer) while walking. I could record it for you if you add the option to save gameplay to .avi ;-)

>> Not to mention sand being green... Why's that? Maybe it compiled wrong for me?
> No, that's "by intention". The EMC engine has two types of "sand": The original one (which is called "dirt" there), and a new (green) one, which is called "grass" there. The "sand" in all original levels is translated to "grass" in the new engine for some strange reason. At least for the "real" EMC levels (like "bond mine" etc.), this won't change (as it was also green there), but will be adjusted by custom (original) graphics for the classic original EM sets.

Ok, I thought so. The thing I said about 'has compiled wrong' was referring to the animations

>> [edit] I compiled target sdl rather than X11 and the animations got fixed. I have no idea why it's that way, X11 was fine in 3.1.0.
>It should also be fine in 3.2.0 -- please help with a more detailed problem report so that I can fix it. For me, the X11 version is as nearly as important as the SDL version (and, as mentioned, my main working version).

I'm sorry, I'm not a programmer, so it's hard to me to file a detailed report error. I just did 'make', that's all. Should I make it again and send you the whole output?


>> 1. The movements (and snapping) are very slow... makes it hard to get through some points when you have to be quick... (like when placing a dynamite and running away from it)
> That's right. This is also 100% "original" behavior and one of the main differences of the new EM engine compared to the R'n'D engine. While the R'n'D engine (and also the original Supaplex game) have asynchronous element handling (which means that the player can move at any time independently from other elements), the EM engine (and also the BD game) have a synchronous engine, which allows emelents and also the player to only move every eight frames. Although this is a maximum delay of only 0,16 seconds, it's indeed noticable (especially when you're used to asynchronous engines like R'n'D and Supaplex).

At least that (it thinks it's this) fixes the problem with levels when I couldn't even start running before being hit by the bomb of killed by the spaceship ;-) And yes, I'm used to Supaplex and it will always be a poit of reference to me, so sorry if I sometimes complain with no apparent reason.

>> 3. The game skips to the main screen when asking whether to load or overwrite the tape, in the former case it causes that when the tape loads and stops, player can't see the level until he/she hits space to unpause - very unhandy. (edit: this problem also vanished after I compiled sdl target)
> Oops... I'll check this, too. (Although I'm not 100% sure it I understand the problem.)

When I hit F1/F2 and the requester shows up in the 'door' asking whether I want to overwrite or load a tape, the main area (normally displaying the level) changes to the main menu and - in case of loading - stays like that until I hit space and unpause. In one case it even displayed part of the page that I had open in Firefox when I started RnD (not at the moment I did the load!)...

>> 4. When holding two arrows (e.g. down and right) while moving, the movement is 'skippy' - player stops after each step. It wasn't so in 3.1.0 and I often use it, because it makes taking curves quicker ;-)
> With "it wasn't so in 3.1.0", you mean "it is not so in the R'n'D engine" -- always remember that R'n'D now has two different engines! :-)

Yes, that's what I meant and I keep that in mind.

>But you're right: The new EM engine indeed has a slightly strange handling of this situation. Currently it's 100% like in the original game.
>This is one of the points that should be discussed here. Should we stay with 100% original behaviour, or should we adjust this to "normal" (expected from R'n'D engine) behaviour?
> I won't expect any levels being easier or harder by this change (besides making levels easier of course due to more "expected" behaviour -- I also don't like this and regularly get killed because I expected the player to move faster in certain situations.)

Personally I think of it like that: that new-old EM engine is a very good poit to start from, as it solves the incompatibilities. But I would highly appreciate if it was improved with time. It's not that we still live in the nineties and the world hasn't progressed ;-) So I opt for improvements in the EM engine, including fixing the double-key-holding issue, dynamite placing (I'll come back to it later), possibly some other things as well. And I don't mean that we should do everything like it was in the RnD engine, I only mean that it would be nice to have all these cosmetic changes that make it more comfortable to play.

> But it's an engine change, and we should be careful to change things here.

Of course after each change the engine should be thoroughly tested (by replaying the tapes and manually solving some levels) and the changes should be reversed if thee's a need, but I'm sure we can handle that ;-)

> If I remember correctly, at least in one case this indeed was a "?" sign which was changed to a different graphic. If you find out which set it is, I'll check this.

Do you want me to point you to levels in which "?" changed or to these in which it didn't? If you mean the former, there are two such levels and I mentioned them on the list. In the latter case, there also are at least two such levels... Bondmine 12, level 3 and Bondmine 13, level 3.

>> At first I coulnd't believed it, so I tested it several times with different levelsets, with the same result: Entering the (open) exit KILLS the player :-D Now that's what I call a BUG :-D
> Yes, that's funny. The real problem here is that the tape does not stop. I'm just not sure at the moment if the level is counted as "solved" or not, but I'll check this.
> Besides that, in original EM, the player indeed "explodes" when entering the exit. (The level is counted as "solved" after that, of course.)
Well, it's not solved and it acts just like after the player's death (as Flummi said, the tape goes on).

> Hmm, this works fine for me. Holding down the "snap" button (default left "Ctrl") for a few seconds places the dynamite. bojster, does this work for you?
> This is another behaviour that should be discussed. The original EM works with a joystick with one button (well, two buttons with the same function ;-) ). So, to also have "snap" and "drop", it uses "fire+direction" for snapping, and "holding fire a short time" for dropping the dynamite. This is not really needed now, but would be a noticable change in the engine. Especially, this would make some levels quite a bit easier, as placing dynamite was always a task in EM that was a bit hairy (good timing needed). This would now be easier, and you would be able to run and drop dynamite at the same time withoutn stopping, which was not possible in EM/EMC. Any opinions or advice here?

Let me start by saying that in original Supaplex the red disk was placed by holding down fire, the same button that was used for snapping. I can't count times when I accidentally placed the red disk when I was holding down fire wondering what I should snap ;-) So... I was very glad to discover that in RnD different buttons are used for these purposes, thus elliminating the chance of error. And I hardly opt for this division to stay. It's very comfortable and saves a lot of nerves. If someone actually wants it to behave like in the old engine (I don't think there is such someone, though), you could add another setup option to give a choice, but at least the keys should be different by deafult. It's enough that the time to run away from the dynamite is very short (like in Supaplex, now you have ages to hide, whereas in the original Supaplex it took a real craft to place the red disk and run more than 2 fields away ;-), so I don't appreciate the fact that I already lose time while placing it.

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Post by Flumminator » Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:56 pm

About:

* unusual (compared to RnD-enginge) movement when hitting 2 buttons at once
I turned on my uae and found that Emerald Mine there behaves still different than the new enigne: it ingores one button and changes direction only at the moment you hit the second one, if it changes it alt all (haven't figured it out completely)

* placing dynamite by holding snap-button quite long
if you had "place dynamite" on an extra button and won't allow placing while walking the time to run away won't get shorter. but it might make some levels easier, because you save a lot of time, when placing dynamite.


possible solution:
engine configuration option "EM controls [simplified/original]"
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Post by bojster » Sun Jan 02, 2005 6:52 pm

Flumminator wrote:* placing dynamite by holding snap-button quite long
if you had "place dynamite" on an extra button and won't allow placing while walking the time to run away won't get shorter. but it might make some levels easier, because you save a lot of time, when placing dynamite.
A good solution to that (so not to make anything easier) might be leaving the current behaviour (impossible to place dynamite while walking, >1s delay while placing it) and only changing the button to prevent accidents resulting from snapping for too long ;-)

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Post by Martijn » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:55 pm

Playing the levels with the new em engine would be much more enjoyable when it had the rnd engine behaviour.
The animations (explosions etc.) are different and worse (compared with the rnd engine) now and I don't like the controlling.

I don't like playing as it is now. The em engine was ony meant to have a solution for the non-solvable levels, wasn't it? And to have that some elements act in the classic way.
But these animations and controllings worsen the game and make that I don't like rnd completely anymore (namely I don't like the em-engined levels because of the controlling and animations (delays etc.)).

So I would suggest to change the em-engine in an engine of nowadays. No bad programming with delays from the 80s but a smooth and cool engine such as the rnd engine currently is!

I'm sorry, Holger, see this only as a bug report (I sound too pessimistic for the new year I think ;-) ). Of course I greatly appreciate all your efforts you have done for the em engine!!! See this as a note, a hint on your work!

to be more precise, these are the reports I have noticed so far:

1. (Bond Mine 01) While walking under a row of boulders, you see the boulders fall through (over) the player. It's the same when the boulders are replaced by emeralds/diamonds. Before, in the rnd engine, the boulders waited till Rockford was on the next grid. Now they fall immediately.
2. When you hit a yam yam for example, first the boulder goes into the yam yam before he explodes! That makes you see that the yam yam is in a black square! The same with a bomb which falls onto a wall: it has a delay which I (we) weren't used to with the rnd engine.
And I think it's the same case when you are walking in a row of emeralds/diamonds. You see the grabbing-animation still animating on Rockford's back!
3. While pressing the right and up arrow (for example) at the same time when there's a wall above you, Rockford stops on each grid. In the rnd engine is was normal that he just walked on until there was an entrance in the wall. Secondly, Rockford walks past an entrance (like sand, empty space etc.). You have to release the up arrow (in this case) first.
4. everywhere there are delays: snapping delays, controlling delays etc. dynamite-placing delay, etc. It takes away the smooth gameplay of the rnd engine.

I greatly support the idea of Flummi: choosing if you want the 100% original code with delays and wrong animations or if you want the em engine in an rnd-environment!
Last edited by Martijn on Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Holger » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:22 pm

> I don't like the controlling.

You're not alone. ;-)

That's why it's discussed here, and why I made the pre-release. :-)

> So I would suggest to change the em-engine in an engine of nowadays.

That's in fact the existing R'n'D engine.

> No bad programming with delays from the 80s but a smooth and cool engine such as the rnd
> engine currently is!

The delays are not from the 80s, but are caused by the fact that the engine is a synchrounous engine, where everything can only start moving at the same time. Changing this would cause exactly those problems which make certain EMC levels unsolvable.

That's why we have two engines now in R'n'D. Theoretically it would be no problem to play certain levels in both engines (native and converted).


About the animations: Bugs (animations that look strange) should be reported here, else I can't fix them. (Besides that, all EMC level sets will get their native artwork when everything's done.)

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Post by Martijn » Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:27 pm

sorry, I edited the topic and at the same time you answered, holger! so don't look strange or so.
Holger wrote:]The delays are not from the 80s, but are caused by the fact that the engine is a synchrounous engine, where everything can only start moving at the same time. Changing this would cause exactly those problems which make certain EMC levels unsolvable.


Huh? But you also wrote this:
Holger wrote: This is one of the points that should be discussed here. Should we stay with 100% original behaviour, or should we adjust this to "normal" (expected from R'n'D engine) behaviour?
So IS or ISN'T it possible to fix that the animation of the grabbing emerald is still on your back? And how about the slow reaction of a falling bomb (it first starts a winter-sleep when it falls on a wall before it explodes!). And how about the rocks/gems which are falling on top of the player?

******
a new report:
1. watch a boulder falling through quicksand. under the quicksand it doesn't appear the more and more, no it's *FLASH* and there's a new boulder! Was this in emerald mine, too? I don't know whether you had to pay money for the original emerald mine, but all those things make the game cheap, don't they?
2. This is the same as #2 in the my previous reply, but another case: watch a boulder falling on a diamond. It doesn't look cool.
I won't expect any levels being easier or harder by this change (besides making levels easier of course due to more "expected" behaviour -- I also don't like this and regularly get killed because I expected the player to move faster in certain situations.)
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Holger
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Post by Holger » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:02 pm

> 1. (Bond Mine 01) While walking under a row of boulders, you see the boulders fall through
> (over) the player. It's the same when the boulders are replaced by emeralds/diamonds.
> Before, in the rnd engine, the boulders waited till Rockford was on the next grid. Now they
> fall immediately.

This depends on the player settings in the R'n'D engine ("block last field").

With the default settings active, the EM and the R'n'D engine behave exactly the same here.

> 2. When you hit a yam yam for example, first the boulder goes into the yam yam before he
> explodes! That makes you see that the yam yam is in a black square! The same with a bomb
> which falls onto a wall: it has a delay which I (we) weren't used to with the rnd engine.

This is specific behaviour of the classic EM engine. Changing this would break levels.

> And I think it's the same case when you are walking in a row of emeralds/diamonds. You see
> the grabbing-animation still animating on Rockford's back!

This is just a graphical issue. The R'n'D engine does it this way, while the EM engine does it the other way. (Just think of Rockford collecting the gem with the left or right hand...)

> 3. While pressing the right and up arrow (for example) at the same time when there's a wall
> above you, Rockford stops on each grid. In the rnd engine is was normal that he just
> walked on until there was an entrance in the wall. Secondly, Rockford walks past an
> entrance (like sand, empty space etc.). You have to release the up arrow (in this case) first.

Yup. This was already reported and discussed above.

> 4. everywhere there are delays: snapping delays, controlling delays etc. dynamite-placing
> delay, etc. It takes away the smooth gameplay of the rnd engine.

Also see above.

> I greatly support the idea of Flummi: choosing if you want the 100% original code with
> delays and wrong animations or if you want the em engine in an rnd-environment!

The "EM engine in an R'n'D environment" is washing yourself without getting wet. ;-)

BTW: The animations have nearly nothing to do with the game engine. So if there are flaws, they should be reported and corrected.

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Post by Holger » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:14 pm

> > This is one of the points that should be discussed here. Should we stay with 100% original
> > behaviour, or should we adjust this to "normal" (expected from R'n'D engine) behaviour?
> So IS or ISN'T it possible to fix that the animation of the grabbing emerald is still on your
> back?

Please read the original posts again. This statement refers to walking while holding two keys pressed, not to collect animations.

> And how about the slow reaction of a falling bomb (it first starts a winter-sleep when it
> falls on a wall before it explodes!).

This is a specific property (read: timing) of the EM engine. Changing it would break levels.

> And how about the rocks/gems which are falling on top of the player?

In the R'n'D engine, the player is displayed over other items, in the EM engine, he is displayed under other items. This is of course not a genuine property of the engine itself, but I just took it the way it was done in the classic game to preserve the optical impression. It may look more authentic with the original graphics, which follow.

> 1. watch a boulder falling through quicksand. under the quicksand it doesn't appear the
> more and more, no it's *FLASH* and there's a new boulder! Was this in emerald mine, too?

No, this is a graphical bug. Thanks for reporting it.

> I don't know whether you had to pay money for the original emerald mine,

Yes, it costs DM 29,95 in 1997. A very good buy at that time! :-)

> but all those things make the game cheap, don't they?

No, as the original game did not have that bug. :-)

> 2. This is the same as #2 in the my previous reply, but another case: watch a boulder falling
> on a diamond. It doesn't look cool.

Oops. This is wrong, too. Thanks for reporting this.

(With the original EM graphics, all these bugs do not happen. So it's good that somebody really tests the new EM engine with standard graphics!)

> I won't expect any levels being easier or harder by this change (besides making levels easier
> of course due to more "expected" behaviour -- I also don't like this and regularly get killed
> because I expected the player to move faster in certain situations.)

Yes, it's nasty. So I understand that you vote for changing this. ;-)

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Post by Martijn » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:19 pm

OK I see the point. Rockfords waits until the boulder hits his feet and then he dies (his feet are his most important organs, apparently).

BTW the more I'm playing it with this new engine, the more I'm going to like it (also because every levelset will have other graphics now). It's just something to get used to!
But about the controlling (I will never get used to that, it's the only irritating thing which remains...): is it possible to make THAT the same as in the rnd engine?

ok real bugs now (I think they are real bugs):
1. When Rockford walks into the acid and a bomb is immediately falling behind him, it explodes on the dying Rockford (who is in the acid) and makes 1 black square on the acid. But the acid could not be exploded, I thought!
it's the same when you just walk into the acid
2. I might be wrong, but it seems that the Windows (SDL) version is slower than it was before. I know that the SDL version slows down a bit but now I have quite a good pc on which the game ran almost fluently! But it seems to 'shock' more!
3. you don't hear a sound when an amoeba is growing nor when rain is falling.
4. when you place a dynamite and you want to walk away, you explode (by that little flame? is rockford explosive himself or so?)
5. when you press enter after you died in the rnd-engined levels, you go to the main menu. In these new native levelsets nothing happens by pressing enter.
6. falling rain goes up and down. it seems it doesn't want to fall. strange behaviour for rain!
7. the possess of keys is not displayed in the menu to the right.
8. the wheels (for robots) make only the touching sound, not the beeping sound.
9. no exit-opening sound

and something else, as mentioned above: how about the level directory names? The emerald mine directories of em engine have the same name as the rnd engine directories (emc_emerald_mine_*). But the bond mines are different. That means I have either to play all those 100s of levels again (never mind, playing is very enjoying) or that I have to copy all the tapes manually to the new directories!
But I wonder: does the new em engine mean that I have to play all levels twice? Let's say (just an example) that I want to play level 1 of bond mine 01 with the rnd engine and level 2 with the em engine. That's not possible now, or am I wrong? Could you give me a good explanation of what it will be like?


a question: is it already possible to play with the real graphics then? if yes, where then? or is that in the coming version (3.2.0)?

and you can only turn on/off block behind player in the level editor as far as I know.
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