Yeah...I feel like a newb asking this

[Lee Brewer]

OK...embarrassed to ask, but although I have been using R&D for a couple decades now, I did it the hard way.

I originally modified existing graphics and the .conf files to make them work. I never used the program for making levels b/c I am on a Mac and did not want to install and run windows.

So I recently update to the latest version of R&D after many versions had been posted.

So here is the dummy question:
Where in the world do I put my own levels to make them show up in the program's list of levelsets?

Also...has there ever been a finished instruction manual posted (since I have been away from the forum for awhile) that makes a simple explanation of using CE values and other things like the ref section of the game editor?

It would really be helpful. I have some large research projects going on and never have the time anymore to sit down and figure these things out. I have made some decent complexity in my levels, but am thinking a general information sticky containing things like this would be very helpful.

In fact if someone would take the time to write up a general and up to date, "Making R&D levels for Dummies Guide" and make a sticky, I think it would be a big help.

I also really would like advice on an easy way to make my own player animations. Years ago I looked into using poser to do so, but just never took the time to go into learning the program just to use it once to make up a set of decent animations. Admittedly I cheated a bit by once using the creature editor in the game Spore to make a modified yam yam and imported that. But just have to many things going on to be able to spending the time I would like to in digging into other software to make a good player anim. I modified others graphics before, but that has limitations as well.

[Holger]

Hi Lee,

OK...embarrassed to ask, but ...

please, never be embarrassed to ask anything here! The documentation for R'n'D is either non-existing or outdated, and there are too many features and aspects of R'n'D that are far from self-explaining, so asking questions in the forum is just fine! That's why it is here.

I originally modified existing graphics and the .conf files to make them work. I never used the program for making levels b/c I am on a Mac and did not want to install and run windows.

I assume that with "the program" you mean ConfEdit, and with "making levels" you mean "making custom artwork" (that's what ConfEdit was created for).

Regarding ConfEdit and Windows (which is the only platform it runs on, unfortunately), most people will have problems today to run it even on Windows, because the program is so old now (again, unfortunately).

Where in the world do I put my own levels to make them show up in the program's list of levelsets?

At least this question is easy to answer, and it's in fact answered on the R'n'D website (in the "Levels & Artwork" section). Quoting "https://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels/":

To add new level packages to Rocks’n’Diamonds, just download the archives, extract them into the “levels” directory and select the set you want to play from the “Levelset” main menu section – that’s all!

The best location to store new level sets and collections is probably not the “levels” directory in the Rocks’n’Diamonds installation directory (which also works fine), but the user data directory of Rocks’n’Diamonds, which is one of the following locations, depending on your system:
...
Mac: Rocks’n’Diamonds/levels in your Documents folder
...

That's all -- just put the directory with your levels into the directory mentioned above. Be sure that you put a directory there which directly contains a file "levelinfo.conf".

As you first have to create your own levels somehow (and I assume that you create them using R'n'D ), they already exist in that location, with a directory name that should be somehow similar to your computer's login name.

If you want to put these levels into some other R'n'D installation, just move that folder to the location mentioned above on the other computer. (The web page above tells you how to put the directory for each operating system supported by R'n'D.)

Also...has there ever been a finished instruction manual posted (since I have been away from the forum for awhile) that makes a simple explanation of using CE values and other things like the ref section of the game editor?

Unfortunately not. And this is something that I really should do, and in fact I plan to do this, right here in the forum. Until this comes to life, please don't hesitate to ask here. That's what the "Help" section in this forum was created for. Either some people lurking in this forum will answer your questions (there are in fact not that many of them anymore nowadays, but those that are still active have a lot of R'n'D knowledge), or else I will happily help you out and answer your questions!

But I will already keep your question for a separate post: How to use CE values, and how to use CE reference elements (from the REF section in the level editor's element palette).

It would really be helpful. I have some large research projects going on and never have the time anymore to sit down and figure these things out. I have made some decent complexity in my levels, but am thinking a general information sticky containing things like this would be very helpful.

Definitely right -- this would indeed be very useful and helpful!

And you are right that most people just don't have the time to figure everything out by "trial and error"!

In fact if someone would take the time to write up a general and up to date, "Making R&D levels for Dummies Guide" and make a sticky, I think it would be a big help.

Again, I could not agree more! I think the following topics will be especially useful:

- generally, creating level sets (how/where are they stored, how can they be published)
- how to create and use custom elements (CEs)
- how to create and use custom artwork (your own graphics, sounds and music for your level sets)

I think I should just start with a small number of quick and short forum posts about different such topics, and link them all together in one sticky post, just as you described it! If there's nothing like that in about one month, don't hesitate to nudge me about it!

I also really would like advice on an easy way to make my own player animations. Years ago I looked into using poser to do so, but just never took the time to go into learning the program just to use it once to make up a set of decent animations. Admittedly I cheated a bit by once using the creature editor in the game Spore to make a modified yam yam and imported that. But just have to many things going on to be able to spending the time I would like to in digging into other software to make a good player anim. I modified others graphics before, but that has limitations as well.

This is a very good question, and one that I have also asked myself every now and then during the last decades. Creating game graphics, especially for games like R'n'D, is different from creating graphics and images for other purposes. So programs like Krita or (beware) Photoshop is most probably completely out of scope.

What I have used in the past are programs suitable for "pixel art" like "Deluxe Paint" (on the Amiga) or "Art Gem" (on Windows), but these nice programs are not supported on modern platforms anymore.

I currently use "GrafX2", which is (quoting its web site) "a bitmap paint program inspired by the Amiga programs Deluxe Paint and Brilliance". It's a program specialized for 256-color drawing, and well-suited for pixel art style graphics.

You may want to have a look at it: http://grafx2.chez.com/

GrafX2 is in fact as old as R'n'D, both starting in 1995, but both being developed until today. The last release version of GrafX2 is from 2021. However, the last release available for the Mac is one version behind (version 2.7 instead of the latest version 2.8 ) and from the year 2020.

Maybe this program is also useful for you, or others!

Do others here have other recommendations on graphics or painting programs well-suited for games like R'n'D?

[filbo]

just download the archives, extract them into the “levels” directory

Doesn't the Android port (and maybe iOS?!) have in-game downloading & management of .zip / .7z archives? Seems like the desktop edition should have that as well -- or all should, if I'm mistaken about the mobile editions.

That is: 'just download and extract into specified place' is trivial for people who are used to such things -- and rocket science to 95% of the public! It would be so much nicer if, inside RnD, you could just say 'yo, that archive there -- plunk it into my local levelsets and let's go!'. With possible extensions beyond that to get directly from a URL; and then, perhaps, to browse the high scores archive and download directly from it (internally it would probably just feed a URL, which in many cases would point to somewhere in artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels/, but maybe sometimes elsewhere...?)

Do others here have other recommendations on graphics or painting programs well-suited for games like R'n'D?

I've never tried to do that sort of work, but as a general 'pixel paint' program I've been pretty happy with 'mtPaint' (https://mtpaint.sourceforge.net / https://github.com/wjaguar/mtPaint). Its development seems to be at a standstill the last 2-3 years, but it's in a pretty good place and might not need active development...

[ellipirelli]

Hello Lee, I loved your levels, which were available on Zomis' site in 2007 under file ID 339, played them often and also uploaded them here on the forum: viewtopic.php?p=14219#p14219

I personally use the Greenfish icon editor, which I downloaded many years ago to create icons. (The existing ones were too boring for me.) Through experimentation, I found that I could draw/create graphics for RnD with it as well. Image by image, which I then assembled into a stripe and could view as an animation using congEdit from Alan. (Also there I had to try a lot of things to make it work). You can save the images in any format you can imagine - as png, bmp, gif and many others. Images with 24 or even 32bit should not be saved as gif, otherwise you have a color loss and it doesn't look so nice in the game. This is the way I created my DC3 graphics a few years ago, which I uploaded here in the forum.
After 3years of working on my own graphics with the Greenfish editor, I found out by accident that you can also create gifs with it. So if you insert your already finished files with identical format (any size is possible up to several thousand pixels) one below the other and set the appropriate speed (frame duration) by clicking on each frame (for 20 frames I use e.g. 120, for 4frames 200), you immediately have an animation. This also works with 3D images, but you have to be careful when saving them as gifs that you want to view again and again. The final gifs store only 256 colors. So it's ideal to save the original files. But you can create a new graphic with appropriate size at the same time (for 4 frames 128x32) and copy and paste the images from the animated gif side by side and save it as png or pcx, without color loss. But no matter which tool you use - everything takes time.

I put here my (older) version3.6.0.9 of this editor. It takes less memory than the latest one and is quite sufficient. I work with Windows, but an old link (available under help) file:///C:/Program%20Files%20(x86)/Greenfish%20Icon%20Editor%20Pro%203.6/Help/English/index.html is helpful and apparently the tool works with other systems too.

I googled today to see if this tool is available for mac.
This is the latest version from 2023: http://greenfishsoftware.org/gfie.php
Chip's download page says: "Greenfish's free "Icon Editor Pro" lets you create icons for programs and apps for the PC, Android and Mac.
https://www.chip.de/downloads/Greenfish ... 12735.html

Some of your questions you had already asked many years ago in this forum. Holger has put the link here again, which describes where you can insert your levels.
And here you can find a tutorial for Rnd (partly outdated, but still helpful, even for CE's): https://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/docs/

Another option is https://ezgif.com/ - endless possibilities to create gifs, stripes etc. or convert them to other formats. Here, for example, I created gifs from videos (public domain), scaled them down accordingly and either post-processed them right here or with the Greenfish editor, recolored them, etc. But as I wrote before - everything costs a lot of time of course.

I hope that my contribution helps you with regard to animations.

[Holger]

Doesn't the Android port (and maybe iOS?!) have in-game downloading & management of .zip / .7z archives? Seems like the desktop edition should have that as well -- or all should, if I'm mistaken about the mobile editions.

Unfortunately no, there is no such functionality, although it would be nice, of course.

For a description of what's available and how it works to add new levels, please see the following URL:
- https://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels/

For Android, there's this special note: "Note for Android: Use a custom file manager like the free and open source Amaze File Manager to be able to access the “levels” folder mentioned above."

Unfortunately, Google makes it more and more complicated (or even nearly impossible) with each new Android version to access files and folders in the device's file system without using special tools or special tricks.

What is available though is Drag'n'Drop and Zip support (also from the above page): "Since version 4.1.2.0, you can also simply drag zip archives containing level or artwork sets using the mouse and drop them into the game window (either in the main menu or the level set selection menu, if you want to add the level set to a specific sub-directory). Alternatively, you can also copy them into the “levels” directory (or any sub-directory), and they will be extracted at the next program start."

It does work for Zip archives (but not for 7z archives), but is tricky for Android as there is no Drag'n'Drop available in the OS.

That is: 'just download and extract into specified place' is trivial for people who are used to such things -- and rocket science to 95% of the public!

I'm afraid that you are right.

It would be so much nicer if, inside RnD, you could just say 'yo, that archive there -- plunk it into my local levelsets and let's go!'.

Indeed! So it would be very nice to have a tree of all available level packages accessible directly within the game just like the already installed level sets, so you could just select it and it would be automagically downloaded and extracted in the background. Most parts of what's technically needed is already there (Zip support and downloading things (score tapes) via an API), but it's not implemented yet.

With possible extensions beyond that to get directly from a URL; and then, perhaps, to browse the high scores archive and download directly from it (internally it would probably just feed a URL, which in many cases would point to somewhere in artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels/, but maybe sometimes elsewhere...?)

Exactly.

Maybe something like this will be available one day.

Regarding pixel paint programs: Thanks, filbo and ellipirelli, for additional suggestions and download links of programs that are suited for this purpose!

[filbo]

Ah, I must have vaguely remembered the drag-and-drop support.

But that sounds like the hard part! Both D-n-D and unzipping are at least moderately hard problems. Being able to click on a link on the scores server and do what's already implemented (unzip into the right place in RnD directory structure) sounds trivial by comparison! :)

Of course 'being able to click on' somehow implies that RnD is suddenly a web browser. Which is a bit too large of a library inclusion, I think! So you'd need some new additional protocol between RnD-as-client and score-server, allowing them to discuss not-yet-installed levelsets. Currently, RnD acts as a client of that server, self-indexed by those levelsets currently present on the client side. RnD would need the new capability of being able to traverse levelsets in the levelset tree which aren't present on the client side, but are known thanks to the server's responses...

It would be frightfully annoying if RnD was always like that. That is: if all installs always pretended to have all levelsets on hand, but if you tried to play one, it had to pause to download & unpack it.

No, strike that. It might be perfectly OK and natural that way. Or it might be overwhelming.

On balance, I think it would be best if it only showed what's already installed; BUT, had a toggle, perhaps a checkbox right there on the levelset-browsing screen, which would switch to 'all levelsets exist, it'll just be a moment for me to download that, boss' mode. i.e. 'show local' vs 'show what the server knows'. (In server mode, not-installed levelsets should look different so the user knows there is some investment involved in playing this levelset vs that one...)

[filbo]

Unfortunately, Google makes it more and more complicated (or even nearly impossible) with each new Android version to access files and folders in the device's file system without using special tools or special tricks. :(

... and that's the charm of doing it strictly inside RnD. Even if you could easily access files on the filesystem, the procedure for the user would be something like:

1. go to artsoft.org, browse around, click to download somelevelsyoureinterestedin.zip
2. open RnD, browse around the device filesystem until you find where somelevelsyoureinterestedin.zip got stashed

which is much ickier than:

1. open RnD, browse available levelsets, click the one you're interested in

:)

(This does make me think that each levelset's metadata on the server should include up to two download links: one for just that levelset, and often another one for an overarching collection. e.g. a specific EMC levelset or download the entire Emerald Mine Club collection of 14 zillion levelsets...)

[Holger]

Also...has there ever been a finished instruction manual posted (since I have been away from the forum for awhile) that makes a simple explanation of using CE values and other things like the ref section of the game editor?

At least, here is a post that tries to explain "CE values", "CE scores" and the various "reverence elements"!

Let me know what you think about it! If you should have any questions or suggestions to this post, feel free to directly reply to that post in that thread.

[ellipirelli]

Hi, Holger thanks for the link to this page. I was on many old pages of the forum to learn a lot as an completely ignorant amateur. But I didn't know this page and couldn't use many things in the editor, especially the REF elements, triggers and so on. Thanks also for the demo levels. At the moment I can't say if everything is helpful for me personally, because I don't have the time to try everything.

[Holger]

But I didn't know this page

You couldn't, because it's a brand new tutorial page to demonstrate using reference elements, as initially asked by Lee in this thread. And I hope I will add some more of such help pages in the future.

[Holger]

But that sounds like the hard part! Both D-n-D and unzipping are at least moderately hard problems. Being able to click on a link on the scores server and do what's already implemented (unzip into the right place in RnD directory structure) sounds trivial by comparison!

Of course 'being able to click on' somehow implies that RnD is suddenly a web browser. Which is a bit too large of a library inclusion, I think! So you'd need some new additional protocol between RnD-as-client and score-server, allowing them to discuss not-yet-installed levelsets.

That's in fact the harder part, I think, together with adding a way to discover and download new level sets directly from within the game!

RnD would need the new capability of being able to traverse levelsets in the levelset tree which aren't present on the client side, but are known thanks to the server's responses...

Yes, that's the main part to add.

On balance, I think it would be best if it only showed what's already installed; BUT, had a toggle, perhaps a checkbox right there on the levelset-browsing screen, which would switch to 'all levelsets exist, it'll just be a moment for me to download that, boss' mode. i.e. 'show local' vs 'show what the server knows'. (In server mode, not-installed levelsets should look different so the user knows there is some investment involved in playing this levelset vs that one...)

Yes, something like that. What I could also imagine would be an additional tree (maybe just next to the virtual "last played level sets" folder) that contains all level sets on the server that can still be downloaded. Or maybe two folders "downloaded level sets" and "level sets available for download" or something like that, so you immediately know where your just downloaded level set was installed after the download is finished. Successfully downloaded level sets would then be removed from the first folder, or would be marked with a different color. Or just one single "level sets from server" folder that shows all level sets on the server, with different colors for level sets that have or have not been downloaded.

(This does make me think that each levelset's metadata on the server should include up to two download links: one for just that levelset, and often another one for an overarching collection. e.g. a specific EMC levelset or download the entire Emerald Mine Club collection of 14 zillion levelsets...)

That's exactly the second "harder" problem yet to be solved, especially as it also involves changes to the existing level set packages. You have exactly named the example that I have in mind regarding that problem: The huge Emerald Mine Club collection package. A user thinking "well, let's have a quick lock at that "Ace Mine 1" level set to see if I could like those many old EMC sets would currently have to download the whole package, wait for all that stuff being extracted, and having lots and lots of level sets (which also may make starting R'n'D slower on older systems).

So, yes, to improve that for the mentioned example, there would have to be up to four (or five) downloads in this case: The single level set "emc_ace_mine_1" and the corresponding artwork sets "gfx_ace_mine_1", "snd_ace_mine_1.default", "snd_ace_mine_1.lowpass" and "mus_classic_em", which are shared by quite a number of different EMC level sets (and which should therefore not be part of each and every single level set download package).

That's all technically possible. It just has to be implemented and thoroughly tested...

[Lee Brewer]

I REALLY appreciate all these replies and also patience in my getting back here. Family issues kept me away.

I will need to go back through all of this and make more specific replies. Again thanks for your answers and patience.

[Lee Brewer]

OK...done reading everything posted since my absence and also at clicking to get the links loaded in new tabs to explore them!

I have some replies. So first: @ Holger:
Holger, I thank you for all of the info. And I will do my best to pop in every once in awhile to keep "nagging" about the "R&D for Dummies!"

I do thank you for the replies and for this amazing game that had taken up so much of my life that last two decades! I am disabled with POTS. It includes brain fog that I cannot detect b/c internally 2+2=5 makes sense those days! So when I suspect I might be foggy, out comes R&D> Days I cannot complete the levels I typically do with relative ease, then I know my mind is not functioning well enough to continue my writing or going into my shop to work with power tools. So R&D is a mental diagnostic tool for me!

Also thanks for the info about the graphics program. I like the idea it's based on DPIII.

I find from the replies to the initial post I should have been more specific. I mentioned Poser bc/ the thing that has stopped me from posting my sets on the forum is that I want 3D graphics such as Alan Bonds BD2K3. Admittedly the graphics I have used in the sets that were posted are mostly scavenged 3D graphics/bullets/gifs from websites. I did draw my own transporters, and as mentioned, used SPORE to make a YamYam modification.

I have been using an incredible graphics program (Windows only) called Photo Impact by Ulead. It is as powerful as Adobe, but is intuitive. I would load the gifs I wanted to modify and pixel by pixel change them. Or I could make a 3D simple shape (meant to be a way to make 3D buttons for webpages) modify it and place it sequentially in a strip to animate it. The power of this program comes in its intuitive nature and also its ability to record and playback a series of steps to apply to other images. So, for example, if I load all the images from a .gif as separate graphics, I can resize all of them by recording the resizing process I use on one image, select all of the remaining images, and then play back the resizing action.
The company is gone, being bought out by Corel many years ago. Corel ruined the program by taking out the intuition and power, and now no linger make it. I got mine (still can) on eBay. Typically cheap to do so. I recommend not going past version 10.

But...unlike Poser I cannot make a 3D animated, for example, walking character. Thus I have not uploaded the levels in a long time. Though, IMO, some of the current ones, being the result of upgrading the originals, have new ideas and elements in them. I specifically like putting in a graphic "reward" eye candy show at the end of each level (my grandsons loved this!).


@Ellipirelli
Thanks also for so much good info and taking the time to post links. I will look into the programs you mentioned despite Ulead Photo Impact being such a good program. I always keep my eyes open for improvements.

I very much appreciate the the comments about my levels. But as mentioned, they are well behind the ones I currently have upgraded some of them to be. I have added a lot of ideas things like ammo depots allowing interchanging of different types of ammo for different types of monsters, "nuclear" missiles, changeable bad guys, variable transporters, redrawn playing fields after the player gets through it once, boomerang-like shots, etc. etc.

My main problem is that since I cannot make the 3D graphics I want, I still have a lot of Alan Bond's BD2k3 graphics files in my graphics folder and am not sure which ones I still use. So my set is memory intensive to upload. As much as I want to go back and filter them out...I tend to instead use the time I SHOULD have to do so to create and test more LOL!

Looking forward to checking out the programs you gave me links for....