pre-release 3.2.0-5

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Holger
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pre-release 3.2.0-5

Post by Holger » Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:58 am

OK, a new thread for a new pre-release version. :-)

Please report bugs here! :-)

(There were quite a few changes, especially to the "CE actions" interface, so I expect some bugs there...)

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Darkon
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Post by Darkon » Wed Dec 28, 2005 3:54 pm

One that comes to mind immediately isnt quite a bug but seems more of a feature.

It seems that on the previous version, if a variable is 0 and you minus a value from it, it would act like it became 0 again however on the latest release it seems that this isnt the case, so it see's that the value is still 0 and doesnt respond.

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Post by Holger » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:39 pm

> It seems that on the previous version, if a variable is 0 and you minus a
> value from it, it would act like it became 0 again however on the latest
> release it seems that this isnt the case, so it see's that the value is still 0
> and doesnt respond.

I think this is how it should be -- the action should only be triggered if the CE value *reaches* zero, not everytime it *is* zero (or "gets zero again", as you described). So it should be possible to implement a CE value as a counter starting at, say, 42 and let it count down. When it's zero, the action should be triggered. As it still "counts down" (while staying at zero, as it can't get negative), it does not trigger the action again. If you want to do it like you described, just add another page where it sets the counter to "1" when it reaches zero, this way it should act like you described above (and start triggering the action every decrement once it reached zero).

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Re: pre-release 3.2.0-5

Post by Zomis » Wed Dec 28, 2005 6:11 pm

Holger wrote:(There were quite a few changes, especially to the "CE actions" interface, so I expect some bugs there...)
If so then you're right...
CE Value isn't initiated at the start of the level for an element if it's set to "use last ce value after change" (I think this is the cause, i tested many things and came to the conclusion that this is the problem).

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Post by Darkon » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:33 pm

Ah, your quite right, it would be completely un-neccesary, id never noticed the *ce value* under the config 1 page, this means I should be able to do what i was wanting to do without any problems.

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Post by Holger » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:35 pm

> CE Value isn't initiated at the start of the level for an element if it's set to
> "use last ce value after change" (I think this is the cause, i tested many
> things and came to the conclusion that this is the problem).

Oops. Indeed! Fixed. Thanks! :-)

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Post by Holger » Wed Dec 28, 2005 7:41 pm

> Ah, your quite right, it would be completely un-neccesary, id never
> noticed the *ce value* under the config 1 page,

Yup, maybe it's a bit unexpected there... But as it's related to the whole CE (and not only to a single change page), I think it's best placed there...

> this means I should be able to do what i was wanting to do without any
> problems.

Good to know! :-)

BTW: Is it possible to emulate the "hammer" feature of DC3 with the new "change when snapped" condition? Although I don't know exactly how it works, I could imagine that it would be possible to create some sort of "hammer" with it. ("chest CE" changes when "hammer CE" collected and then opens when snapped...)

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Post by Darkon » Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:11 pm

Well, its still not 100% possible unless everytime a hammer was collected the walls, the chests and the nuts gain 1 variable

but even then it wouldnt be 100% accurate since if a nut was spawned it wouldnt have the correct value.

The hammer makes so whenever a wall, a nut or a chest is snapped, it causes them to do a 1x1 explosion, reducing the ammount of hammers you have by 1.
The ammount of hammers is only reduced if you snap one of the mentioned objects.

*edit*
Oh, something I better mention, if your planning on implementing the hammer, your probably going to add the chest too, if a chest contains a monster its lid lifts slightly open then closes every once in a while.
Last edited by Darkon on Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Holger » Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:13 pm

Thanks for the description! I think it's best to create that DC3 hammer in native code then... :-)

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Post by Zomis » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:29 am

Holger wrote:Yup, maybe it's a bit unexpected there... But as it's related to the whole CE (and not only to a single change page), I think it's best placed there...
The CE value: Absolutely. But I actually thought that the "CE keeps CE value after change" was going to be placed at every change page... but maybe that's unneccesary and it's best the way it is, I'm not sure.



>Well, its still not 100% possible unless everytime a hammer was
>collected the walls, the chests and the nuts gain 1 variable

This sounds possible. On the chests, nuts and walls:
Set CE Value + 1 when player collects hammer

>but even then it wouldnt be 100% accurate since if a nut was spawned it
>wouldnt have the correct value.

So should the nut start at zero or at the same value all the others have?
I actually think both cases are possible (especially the first one, you probably can figure out how already so I suppose you were talking about the 2nd case). If you have an indestructible CE (named "maintainer") that changes to itself (keeping the same CE value using the new option) every time a hammer is collected, and change every time a new nut or something is spawned, then you could have a change page on the nuts that says "on change by page of 'maintainer' page 2 (change to itself), set CE value to trigger CE value. This would (or at least should... haven't tested this feature yet so it could be buggy) make the new nut have the same CE value as the 'maintainer', which is the same CE value as all the others have. I think this should work.

>The hammer makes so whenever a wall, a nut or a chest is snapped, it
>causes them to do a 1x1 explosion, reducing the ammount of hammers
>you have by 1.
>The ammount of hammers is only reduced if you snap one of the
>mentioned objects.

So all walls make a 1x1 explosion, and decreases the amount of hammers by one? This also sounds possible. I think the 'maintainer' CE could be used here as well. And this actually made me curious, I wonder how the new "keep CE value after change" option reacts on explosions to same CE? The CE value will probably be reseted then, but I think the 'maintainer' CE could give out it's value to all other CEs...
Or maybe it's enough with letting the 'maintainer' CE store the 'amount of hammers' and not share it with the rest of the CEs.

>Oh, something I better mention, if your planning on implementing the
>hammer, your probably going to add the chest too, if a chest contains a
>monster its lid lifts slightly open then closes every once in a while.

This also sounds possible using CEs (and custom artwork, of course...), but it would need one CE for every possible content in the chest.

These are just thoughts. I think it could work like this, but I haven't played DC3 with these elements. So I'm not 100% sure it will work with CEs.

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Post by Darkon » Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:29 pm

Small problem with the automover

If one player is traveling one direction and another traveling another due to automovers, it can cause one of the players to go off screen, isnt really a problem since both players can still move but thought id mention it.

*edit* it causes the screen to move over, yet it acts like one of the players is at the level boundry, causing the other player to be able to move around outside the viewable area.

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Post by Zomis » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:15 am

What's the point for "change when snapped by player", really?
If I snap the CE then it can't change because it doesn't exists anymore, right?
Player snaps <element> however, is much more useful.

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Post by Zomis » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:31 am

CE1 is Indestructible
CE1 changes to extended target - Destructible when pressed by player
Extended target = full of CE1's
Now press CE1.
Player explodes but does not die, and stands on top of an indestructible, unwalkable CE.

Guessed cause: Player only explodes but does not die when he dies of a <pressed by player> change. (Adding an <kill player> action to the change helps)

Haven't tested this in earlier versions of RND, but I'm guessing that this is a pretty old bug...

Another bug
I can't get the action "Set CE value = CE value of element trigger" to work no matter what I do... I tried doing it when touching another element, without success.

Beware! Although it might not be a bug, using "Set ... to CE Delay" multiplies CE Delay with 50 if it's set to seconds and not frames. This is due to the fact that 1 second = 50 frames. - Just took me some time to figure out why it was like that...

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Post by Holger » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:20 pm

> What's the point for "change when snapped by player", really?

:-)

> If I snap the CE then it can't change because it doesn't exists anymore,
> right?

No -- this is only true if the CE is either diggable or collectible, but it may be neither!

Imagine the following: There is a collectible "hammer" CE1 and a "closed chest (no hammer)" CE2. If the player collects CE1, the CE2 changes to a new "closed chest (player has hammer now)" CE3. If the player now snaps CE3, it changes to a "content of now smashed chest" CE.

So it's very useful for player interactions with CEs which were not possible before! :-)

> Player snaps <element> however, is much more useful.

Well, I think that it won't add much more functionality to "player digs <element>" or "player collects <element>", but it is of course useful for additions to the above scenario...

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Post by Zomis » Mon Jan 02, 2006 12:36 pm

Holger wrote:Imagine the following: There is a collectible "hammer" CE1 and a "closed chest (no hammer)" CE2. If the player collects CE1, the CE2 changes to a new "closed chest (player has hammer now)" CE3. If the player now snaps CE3, it changes to a "content of now smashed chest" CE.

So it's very useful for player interactions with CEs which were not possible before! :-)
Aaaah...:D I never thought about that it could be possible to snap unsnappable CEs (quite a contradiction... but well... that's how it is now so...:D). Ok then, this will be veeery useful! (Heh... imagine a huge maze and you have to go snap one specific wall piece...;))

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