Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

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BryanFRitt
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Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

Restore a game to a non-finishing restore via playback restore, (ether ||pause it during playback, or wait for it to get to the end of playback), until game is restored with quick restore, the pause feature doesn't unpause when game keys, etc... are pressed. Must press the ||pause button or key to unpause.
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Holger
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by Holger »

I have checked this several times now, and tried to reproduce it, but without success.

Unfortunately, I do not understand your description or I am unable to repeat it. :-(

(For example, I do not under stand this: "Restore a game to a non-finishing restore via playback restore, (ether ||pause it during playback, or wait for it to get to the end of playback)" -- if you restore a game state via quick load, you _are_ at the end of the playback.)

Could you please write a step-by-step description (like that: press this key or button, do this, then do that, then this happens which should not be the case) how to reproduce the buggy behavior you have encountered?
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

Could you please write a step-by-step description (like that: press this key or button, do this, then do that, then this happens which should not be the case) how to reproduce the buggy behavior you have encountered?
  • Start a level
  • Move somewhere
  • Press the quick save shortcut
  • For 'REPLACE OLD TAPE ?' choose 'YES'.
  • Press '[]STOP', Press '|>PLAY' (These two are I was calling a 'playback restore', because it plays back the tape, instead of going directly to the end, a 'quick restore')
  • Optional: The '[]STOP' button can be pressed during playback to restart playing from a point within the playback.
    NOTES: A) Pressing '()RECORD' during playback doesn't have this unpause issue. B) I'm thinking this recording state shouldn't be allowed to happen. C) There maybe other issues with this. See EDIT.
From here on, until the tape is quick restored, additional pauses won't unpause with directional keys, etc... See EDIT.
* EDIT: I noticed in this state, even when not paused, the tape no longer says it's recording, and the tape timer isn't going up.
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Holger
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by Holger »

OK, I think, now I know what you mean. :-)

When you play back a tape, and go to pause mode, you cannot unpause the game with the directional keys, because you are in "tape replaying" mode and not in "tape recording" mode -- you can only press "space" to unpause and continue replaying.
NOTES: A) Pressing '()RECORD' during playback doesn't have this unpause issue.
Pressing "record" during tape replay should do nothing unless you are in pause mode.

If you want to continue a replayed tape by recording again, do the following:
- tape is replaying
- press "pause"
- press "record" (this switches from "replay" mode to "record" mode)
- continue recording with any valid game input key or button (like with one of the directional keys or buttons)

Hope that makes sense. :-)
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

Holger wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:13 pm Pressing "record" during tape replay should do nothing unless you are in pause mode.
Yep, has to be in pause mode to start recording from the middle. [ops... mentally skipped this step when typing my previous post(s)] I suppose it could be done in a way that it doesn't have to paused. Like just press a directional key, etc... during a playback and it goes back to recording from this point. This skipping of pause step might should be optional, for cases like what if R'n'D got made so a display tilt would move the character?

Actually, tilt to move option seems like a neat a idea to try. Potential feature request!
Last edited by BryanFRitt on Sun Nov 20, 2022 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Life is partially trying to strike a balance between generating new things/ideas, and making sure they are good/organized. These extremes can be said to between gibberish mess and nothing said/done.
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

BryanFRitt wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:53 pm IMHO There shouldn't be a non-recording mode at all.
Life is partially trying to strike a balance between generating new things/ideas, and making sure they are good/organized. These extremes can be said to between gibberish mess and nothing said/done.
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

BryanFRitt wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 9:53 pm IMHO There shouldn't be a non-recording mode at all.
That is when a game is being played, and not paused. Well, I suppose recording when game is paused can be optional and playing back these game pause times can be optional as well.
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filbo
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by filbo »

I think I understand the reason for this behavior is that tape state is precious. If you were playing back a tape, intending to append to it, but slipped and hit any key along the way, you would not want it to immediately cut the tape there. The tape is only cut on an explicit 'record' command.

You're thinking in terms of multiple save points, branching like a software development tree. In a game which had that, the current state would be less precious since it would have all kinds of facilities for hopping around between states, including (presumably) some sort of 'undo' to un-cut the cut you just made. But at the moment there is not so much flexibility, so cutting the tape is a serious act.
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

What this is, is behaviour in a state that R'n'D shouldn't be able be in, that of non-recording game playing.
[]|>Playback doesn't always end in a proper recording/play state, but allows play, and quick saves that may appear to work, but don't properly work on []|>playback, etc... . It's like a broken linked list.

Code: Select all

Translations:
[] <-- stands for the stop button
|| <-- stands for the pause button
() <-- stands for the record button
|> <-- stands for the play button
[]|> <-- stands for playback, pressing [] then |>
play <-- when a user controls the character
playback <-- when R'n'D is showing a game previously played
Related, probably different side effect of same bug.
Tape Clock Times After Restore Issues
viewtopic.php?t=3321
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Holger
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by Holger »

There were two problems that will be fixed in the next release:

- "replay tape" and "fast replay tape" ended in the tape being stopped, while being able to continue playing the game
- "warp replay tape" and "invisible warp replay tape" ended in the tape being stopped in "record" mode (which seems correct)

The tape should stop in "record/paused" mode in all four cases above.

Then, creating snapshots using "quick save" should only be possible while recording the game, not when playing without recording (which would always result in broken tapes).
BryanFRitt
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Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

Holger wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 12:34 pm Then, creating snapshots using "quick save" should only be possible while recording the game, not when playing without recording (which would always result in broken tapes).
An additional restraint could be that playing shouldn't be permitted while not recording, or can play only while recording.

Playing without recording has only one advantage that I could think of: Two save points, (one from []|>playback, one from quick save) ignoring/never saving whatever it is player is trying out at the moment? Is there another reason to be playing without recording?

If player likes or doesn't like whatever it is they've done, they should be able to choose to save or not to save the tape, if that's what they want. if wanting to save, it can be annoying to find out whatever has been done can't be saved.
Life is partially trying to strike a balance between generating new things/ideas, and making sure they are good/organized. These extremes can be said to between gibberish mess and nothing said/done.
BryanFRitt
Posts: 211
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:16 pm

Re: Pause sometimes doesn't unpause when a button is pressed

Post by BryanFRitt »

Instead of []stop going into an awkward unsavable* game play mode, it could go into the start of tape []|>playback mode ||paused, with a message of how tape []|>playback works, until a do not show again is selected, and/or these instructions could be added to something like a MAIN MENU > INFO SCREEN > TAPE USE

These instructions would need to get updated if it how it works gets changed.
Multiple Quick Save Points
viewtopic.php?t=3372

*Whatever you do in this mode won't be saved including if you beat the level. Trying to playback this non-existing tape from the high scores will get you a "CAN NOT FIND SCORE TAPE !".
CANNOT_FIND_SCORE_TAPE_!.png
CANNOT_FIND_SCORE_TAPE_!.png (746 Bytes) Viewed 315 times
Life is partially trying to strike a balance between generating new things/ideas, and making sure they are good/organized. These extremes can be said to between gibberish mess and nothing said/done.
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