3D Maze

[Alan]

Ahh, I never have time enabled from the main menu......I don't like being rushed

[BrownSky]

Hi, the link to the 3D maze is broken. But the funny thing is that it refers to a location on this website:

http://ambience.artsoft.org/levels/3dmaze.zip

Is there any way of obtaining a copy of the file please? Sounds very interesting and leading edge.

cheers

John

[Holger]

Here it is!

Not sure if it still works with current R'n'D, though!

[armanelgtron]

It seemingly does work, after renaming l4.pcx to L4.pcx in the graphics folder. However, trying to edit the level, without even actually changing anything (just going into the level editor, saving, then exiting, then trying to start game) completely breaks it...

[Holger]

It seemingly does work

Good to hear that, as I haven't tried it by myself again, just found and added the old archive!

after renaming l4.pcx to L4.pcx in the graphics folder

So it will work on Windows without modifications, but needs that change on OSes with case-sensitive file systems.

However, trying to edit the level, without even actually changing anything (just going into the level editor, saving, then exiting, then trying to start game) completely breaks it...

Yes, that's expected behaviour, as saving from the level editor tags the level to use the latest game engine version, so no backwards compatibility stuff will be used anymore, which is usually required to play it just like with the older R'n'D version it was created with.

[filbo]

However, trying to edit the level, without even actually changing anything (just going into the level editor, saving, then exiting, then trying to start game) completely breaks it...

Yes, that's expected behaviour, as saving from the level editor tags the level to use the latest game engine version, so no backwards compatibility stuff will be used anymore, which is usually required to play it just like with the older R'n'D version it was created with.

This is a problem for anyone actually wanting to work on an old level (e.g. it works 99%, but is one diamond short). Adding the one missing diamond shouldn't require one to also rethink the level design to be compatible with the latest engine...

Can there be a way in the editor to basically say 'preserve old compatibility bits which were present when you read in this level'?

[Holger]

This is a problem for anyone actually wanting to work on an old level (e.g. it works 99%, but is one diamond short). Adding the one missing diamond shouldn't require one to also rethink the level design to be compatible with the latest engine...

Yes, that's right indeed. :-/

Can there be a way in the editor to basically say 'preserve old compatibility bits which were present when you read in this level'?

I think this would be very useful, yes. And maybe it would even make sense to use this as the default behavior, effectively not changing how the level works after editing a few things.

So what I should probably add is a checkbox like "[ ] use latest engine version" which is unchecked by default. Plus some information about what is the engine version that the level currently uses.

[filbo]

Since you'll be making some small changes to level storage format, I think you can do better.

Yes, when editing a level with 'old' markers inside, offer the opportunity to rewrite those markers to use the latest engine. But. Also leave behind a record showing what the original markers were.

When later editing the same level (i.e.: a level which is now configured to use latest engine, but has fossilized evidence of previous history), offer the opposite toggle. To switch the markers back to use the original engine.

Why? Because it would be really easy to say 'use the latest', everything seems alright, but eventually you get deep into playing the level and realize it just won't work. For the user to undo that mistake is nearly impossible; for software to do it, having left itself a note, is trivial...

[filbo]

(I'm aware that you could do a series of edits which result in level versions which only work with a series of different engine versions, making a towering mess. I don't suggest to try to deal with that. Just pretend there is such a thing as an 'original environment' under which a level originally worked, and 'whatever ongoing environment exists today', which might change over time but should continue to provide adequate compatibility with itself going forward. So just remember the oldest markers. I guess that really makes it just a single bit in some file header: always save with the old markers, just add a single bit which says whether or not to implement them...)