difference in wall growth rate?

Stuck at a level? Need help with R'n'D or anything R'n'D related? Post here!

Moderators: Zomis, Flumminator

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:25 am

Well, looking at the commit descriptions narrowed it down, looking at diffs narrowed it further, then I got suspicious of one change, edited src/game_em/input.c:readjoy() to act like 'use_single_button' was always false, and -- the tape worked.

Holger, I've died many times because I hit left-ctrl ('snap') intending only to advance the clock, and instead laid a bomb. Now we see this feature causes old tapes to malfunction. What was the reason for adding it? So far I've only experienced it as a negative.

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:26 am

Don't worry, the bug preventing this tape from playing back in 4.0.1.0 and 4.0.1.1 is already fixed. I think I will throw out a new patch version 4.0.1.2 in the next few days.

I thought I already fixed this bug before, but yesterday I found out that the fix was broken and did not work... Not sure how I managed to mess up here. :-o

Fixing this bug fixes most of the broken EMC tapes as reported by Ryan in this thread. But not all of them. I've managed to track this bug down to being introduced with R'n'D 3.3.1.0 (as the remaining broken tapes still work fine with 3.3.0.1).

Finding the commit that caused this problem could be a bit tricky, as this is still the old 32-bit code, which refuses to compile out-of-the-box now, I think, so quickly using "git bisect" won't work as easy as it did for the problem mentioned above...

Hope to find and fix it soon, anyway, and release both fixed with 4.0.1.2.

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:30 am

When loading a tape, should the initialization of this setting depend on tape.game_version ? I see hex bytes 04 00 01 01 in my tape, 04 00 00 00 in RAP's.

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:31 am

I want to re-emphasize that I've experienced it as a negative in interactive play, nothing to do with tape bugs. Maybe it's a bad habit of mine using l-ctrl as a clock advancer, but it's deeply ingrained and keeps killing me...

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:42 am

Yep, you nailed it -- it's exactly this change that caused the problem.

The reason for adding this change was to be able to play EM/EMC levels using a single-button joystick again (or use a multi-button joystick, but use the same button for snapping and dropping, just like in the original game on the Amiga).

This indeed caused some problems with the single-step mode, which I thought I had fixed (together with some other nasty bugs and mis-behaviours of the single-step mode, depending on game engine, where it sometimes worked wrong).

Advancing the clock with the snap key in single-step mode is a well-known technique I also use every now and then. But I cannot reproduce the mis-behaviour you described (nor with plain 4.0.1.1, neither with my working version which already contains the bugfix). Just tested this with Classic Emerald Mine, level 59. Collected some dynamite, then released a falling rock and watched it falling step by step by pressing the snap key, without dropping a bomb. The dropping a bomb with the drop key. This is because snap and drop key work a bit differently in single-step mode, to still be able to advance the clock without dropping dynamite.

Could you please describe in detail how to reproduce this bug with plain 4.0.1.1?

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:45 am

When loading a tape, should the initialization of this setting depend on tape.game_version ? I see hex bytes 04 00 01 01 in my tape, 04 00 00 00 in RAP's.
Yes, exactly. And it indeed works like this in 4.0.1.1 -- unfortunately it (the single button setting) then gets unconditionally overwritten afterwards. That's the bug that I've just fixed. :-)

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:46 am

I want to re-emphasize that I've experienced it as a negative in interactive play, nothing to do with tape bugs. Maybe it's a bad habit of mine using l-ctrl as a clock advancer, but it's deeply ingrained and keeps killing me...
And it definitely should work that way! Apparently I'm just unable to reproduce this... :-(

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:54 am

I will report if it still happens once I've built the latest. (Apparently not checked in yet?)

Suppose that, in the process of advancing the clock with 'snap', I sometimes lean on that key for a second or longer? I expect that to have no more effect than tapping it for an instant -- either way, advance the clock one 'tick'. I think that's probably where it goes wrong for me, but I'd have to have it happen again to be sure.

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:56 am

Well, in a quick test, leaning on l-ctrl doesn't blow me up in single-step; but it does in realtime play. It's possible (let's say 'likely') that I also sometimes lean on l-ctrl in realtime play, knowing it is a 'do-nothing' key. Only it isn't, any more.

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:13 pm

I will report if it still happens once I've built the latest. (Apparently not checked in yet?)
Well, I'm talking about plain 4.0.1.1 -- nothing else is commited or pushed yet on top of that...
Suppose that, in the process of advancing the clock with 'snap', I sometimes lean on that key for a second or longer? I expect that to have no more effect than tapping it for an instant -- either way, advance the clock one 'tick'.
Perfectly fine in single-step mode -- press it as long as you like, it won't drop dynamite. (At least, it shouldn't!)
Well, in a quick test, leaning on l-ctrl doesn't blow me up in single-step; but it does in realtime play. It's possible (let's say 'likely') that I also sometimes lean on l-ctrl in realtime play, knowing it is a 'do-nothing' key. Only it isn't, any more.
Ah, OK, yes. That's the new single-button mode I was talking about! That is, the EM engine now behaves exactly like on the Amiga in this regard: Press any button, and it will either snap (together with a direction) or drop dynamite (when held a bit longer without an additional direction key). However, in single-step mode, it still separates between the snap and the drop key, just to be able to do that "advance the frame counter" thing, and to have more control over what's going on.

But I can see clearly now that single-button mode for the EM/EMC engine needs a setup option to turn it on or off. :-D

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:02 am

Make it a tri-state all-engines setup option:

( ) off for all
(*) on for EMC engine, off for others (like the respective originals) (default)
( ) on for all

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:10 am

The possible option "on for all" would not work with the R'n'D engine, as there is no delay when dropping dynamite (so it is possible to "walk and drop" multiple pieces of dynamite, which is not possible in the EM engine.

On the other hand, we have the same scenario with the SP engine, as it behaves just like the EM engine in this regard.

Another possible solution would be to only use single-button mode when using a joystick, as that's what it was designed for at a time when joysticks like the Competition Pro for C64 and Amiga had two physical buttons, but which were wired as one single button (so it did not make a difference if you used the left or right fire button).

But this wouldn't work, as it is possible to switch input devices in single player mode (like using the keyboard and a joystick in parallel within the same game), so when replaying the tape it would not know from which input device the input actions came, not being able to use the correct processing in the game engine. So a global setup option to turn it on or off would be needed anyway.

So, if I did not miss anything, it's effectively only "on" or "off" for all engines that support single-button actions (that is EM and SP).

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:17 am

Oops, I totally forgot for a moment that there's EM style dynamite also in the R'n'D engine, which does not support single-button actions due to the reasons described above (R'n'D style dynamite without delay).

But I think it does not change much (if we don't want to support esoteric cases like "R'n'D levels using only EM elements", which would be possible to be played with single-button mode)... correct me if I've missed something; I might be suffering from tunnel vision again. :-/

filbo
Posts: 278
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:06 am

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by filbo » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:19 am

When recording a tape in which two buttons' actions are conflated, the button whose action was actually executed should be written to the tape. Then there is no playback ambiguity.

User avatar
Holger
Site Admin
Posts: 2906
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: difference in wall growth rate?

Post by Holger » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:15 pm

When recording a tape in which two buttons' actions are conflated, the button whose action was actually executed should be written to the tape. Then there is no playback ambiguity.
This does not work, I think: Imagine playing an EM level in single-button mode, and pressing one button for about half a second (therefore already recording that button to the tape): At this point, it is not yet decided if the player's intended action is snapping (by adding a direction key to the already pressed button) or dropping (by keeping that button pressed without pressing an additional direction key).

So I think the best solution would be an on/off setup option/flag that then gets stored to the tape.

Post Reply