put scores somewhere else...

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Mephisto

put scores somewhere else...

Post by Mephisto » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:26 pm

i really like rocks n diamonds, but i'm kinda annoyed by the place it puts its files. theres a 'scores' directory in my home folder with rocks n diamonds files in it, while the normal way to store files is to put them in a . directory, like .rocksndiamonds or .scores or whatever.
I hope you can fix this for 3.2.0...

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Post by Flumminator » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:54 pm

have you installed Rocks'n'Diamonds is some way, or are you just running the binary from the package?

excerpt from the Makefile:
# directory for writable game data (like highscore files)
# default is '.' to be able to run program without installation
# RW_GAME_DIR = /var/games

so you might re-compile it from source setting the RW_GAME_DIR and RO_GAME_DIR variables according to your system.

see also http://www2.semisane.de/rndwiki/Installation where you can find a little script that compiles and installs rocksndiamonds.
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Holger
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Post by Holger » Fri Apr 29, 2005 6:47 pm

Hi Mephisto!

> i really like rocks n diamonds, but i'm kinda annoyed by the place it puts
> its files. theres a 'scores' directory in my home folder with rocks n
> diamonds files in it, while the normal way to store files is to put them in
> a . directory, like .rocksndiamonds or .scores or whatever.

As Flumminator already asked: How was R'n'D installed, and how do you run it? It is very unlikely (although technically possible) to run R'n'D in a way so that it creates a "scores" directory in your home directory. (It is more likely that it uses some path like "/var/games" or "/var/share/games" if it was installed from a distribution package, or creates the "scores" directory directly inside the game directory if you run the game from inside that directory.)

BTW: A private directory like "~/.rocksndiamonds/scores" is probably not the ideal solution, because you won't see the scores of other players then. That's why one should specify a directory for writable files in the Makefile when installing the game (or playing from the game directory on a system used by only one user for an easy solution which does not require any installation).

Mephisto

Post by Mephisto » Thu May 12, 2005 8:31 am

well i was using an rpm package, so i guess it's the package maintainer's fault then. thanks for the suggestion, i'll build my own binary then :)

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Alan
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Post by Alan » Fri May 27, 2005 10:09 pm

This is a good point though....

In winXP it puts the usual stuff like tapes and setting in C:\My Documents\Rocks'n'Diamonds , but for some odd reason the highscores live in:
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Rocks'n'Diamonds

While this isn't a big problem (but a bit odd), it would be nice to have the scores for that game inside it's own folder, for a few reasons...

I can find it in under 5 minutes ;-) (for the first time anyway)

I'm the only person that plays R&Ds on my PC.... so whenever I play a level that I just downloaded and then beat it, I'm taken to an empty highscore table with just me in it.

It would be really nice if the level maker could include full highscore tables with the level set, maybe give the player the incentive to have another go and beat the author? :wink:

It also adds a secondary puzzle aspect to a level...."How the hell did you get that many points?" type of question.
Last edited by Alan on Fri May 27, 2005 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by bojster » Fri May 27, 2005 10:35 pm

The thing with scores is always the same: should we share it with other users or not. On a single-user machine it's useless to have a systewide high-scores file, so it might as well reside in ~/.rocksndiamonds. But on muli-user machine the only logical location (and I hate the way game creators use all kind of different locations for them, then I have to adjust the paths by hand, sometimes in .h and .c files...) is /var/games/rocksndiamonds. But RnD isn't normally installable anyway, is it? Same thing with MirrorMagic. Well, it requires only a minor tweaking before compilation, but still. ;-)

Worldwide highscores, as Alan suggested, would be nice (and maybe not so hard to implement automatic upload and update, RnD already has SDL_net in it IIRC), but there are a few drawbacks to it: Scoring is only based on points for collected items (or am I wrong, is the time counted in any way?), so the hi-scores will all look the same: all users with, say, 1234 points... Secondly, it's very easy to edit a level, so how would we know if someone is playing fair?

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Alan
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Post by Alan » Fri May 27, 2005 10:44 pm

Maybe I'm a bit confused about this whole highscore multiple user thing...

Shouldn't a highscore table be a single entity where multiple player's scores go, regardless of users? (gowd what a mouthful that sentence was)

Or is the Highscore table a personal best table? :?

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Post by Holger » Fri May 27, 2005 10:55 pm

> In winXP it puts the usual stuff like tapes and setting in
> C:\My Documents\Rocks'n'Diamonds , but for some odd reason the
> highscores live in:
> C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Documents\Rocks'n'Diamonds

Well, the reason is that the first directory is for storing user specific files, while the second one is for storing files for more than one user. These are Microsoft style-guide recommendations (although the first one is wrong when really following MS style-guide -- the really right place would be somewhere where you won't find it either, like the path to the scores, and I don't wanted people accidently throwing away their levels and tapes or not being able to find them when they want to contribute them).

But some people also don't like the "My Documents" folder for the R'n'D data directory (and strictly-speaking they are right, as stated above), so I might add some config file options to explicitly specify the paths to the various directories...

> Worldwide highscores, as Alan suggested, would be nice (and maybe not
> so hard to implement automatic upload and update, RnD already has
> SDL_net in it IIRC), but there are a few drawbacks to it: Scoring is only

Net based high scores would be nice indeed, as more and more people have permanent Internet access these days...

> based on points for collected items (or am I wrong, is the time counted in
> any way?), so the hi-scores will all look the same: all users with, say,

Yes, there are additional points for every 10 seconds remaining when the level is done.

I really don't like the current scoring system (which was directly taken from Emerald Mine). For example, it's bad to give extra scores for every 10 seconds left instead of 1/10 of the scores for every single second left etc.

> 1234 points... Secondly, it's very easy to edit a level, so how would we
> know if someone is playing fair?

That's the main problem with open source software here. When using online high scores, it would be possible to use cryptographic signing of levels and scores. But it would still be very hard to prevent people from using the single-step mode to solve a level, or slowing the game down by using the debug mode keys etc. This cannot be 100% prevented even in closed-source games, and it's nearly impossible to prevent it in open source games... :-/

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Post by Alan » Fri May 27, 2005 11:05 pm

Hummm, all I wanted was the scores to be shipped with the games levels, not net based scores or anything like that.. Simply beat the pre-defined highscore.

It's do-able now, but it means the player has to copy the score files into the score folder (if they can find it) before playing. I'm doing this in the new game anyway. :wink:

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Post by Holger » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:26 am

> Hummm, all I wanted was the scores to be shipped with the games
> levels, not net based scores or anything like that.. Simply beat the
> pre-defined highscore.

Interesting idea! It could be done in a way that shipped levels are taken from the level directory when there are no system wide score entries existing yet -- this way they will be "imported" the first time the level set is played by somebody. (Level creators should use this feature wisely then, because a shipped high score entry like "MASTER........999999" could cause some frustration when only the level builder knows each and every little trick to get the highest score possible... ;-) )

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Post by Martijn » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:28 pm

Holger wrote:I might add some config file options to explicitly specify the paths to the various directories...
what about an in-game option? just in the setup menu?
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Post by Alan » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:47 pm

Level creators should use this feature wisely then, because a shipped high score entry like "MASTER........999999" could cause some frustration
Yes it would be irritating.... but good in a replay value. Finishing the level with 100 points and being under by say 20000 could spark some curiosity and even a replay.

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Post by Holger » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:16 pm

> > I might add some config file options to explicitly specify the paths to the
> > various directories...

> what about an in-game option? just in the setup menu?

As most people won't care about this and simply use the defaults, it wouldn't make much sense to put this into the setup menu (besides the fact that it would be quite a little problem to be able to specify long path names there). Those few who really want a different location for certain files and directories won't mind to edit some simple config files, I think...

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Post by Holger » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:18 pm

> Yes it would be irritating.... but good in a replay value. Finishing the level
> with 100 points and being under by say 20000 could spark some curiosity
> and even a replay.

That's right... And now that you wrote "replay": Yes, that's it! As there are more and more level sets with demo solution tapes, it would indeed make sense to display the scores that were reached by playing these reference tapes!

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Post by Alan » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:50 pm

That's right... And now that you wrote "replay": Yes, that's it! As there are more and more level sets with demo solution tapes, it would indeed make sense to display the scores that were reached by playing these reference tapes!
Nice idea.....so you could select any score in the table and watch the tape for it, like having multiple tapes for each level?

Also if this score is embedded with the tape it would eliminate any cheating you mentioned above.
Insead of the .SCORE file and the tape file, you could combine these two together, so now this single file is really a single score entry for that level. These files could then be swapped and downloaded. All you do is drop it into your score folder and it inserts itself into your highscore table (and maybe beating your own score), then you click it to watch it.

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