The World Making Challenge

All about creating levels and level sets, custom elements and custom artwork.

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Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

Actually, I think when "CE-value conditioned change-pages" will get implemented, I'll have implemented, I'll be able to make multiple rooms per CE!

And the "easy stuff" wasn't anything difficult in this case. I have a working level with two almost empty rooms - one contains a robot wheel and one contains a sand. When you turn the wheel or dig the sand, you get transported to the other level. So the technique is working, but it's not yet polished: I still want to add warparound (like in Zelda) and some sort of "loading, please wait" (or hourglass animation etc).

The "loading" time needs improving. It takes about six seconds to move from one room to another. But at least I'll try to add a cool "progress-bar" (like the one in Alan's Random Levels).
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Tomi, how's it going with the second assignment? Unfortunately, I haven't been able to help you out there. But I'd love to see an example level of your work so far.
Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

Gee, I forgot to upload it, and then I didn't go to this forum for a while. But here it is: "The Loader". Lacks documentation, actually even I can't remember how it works, but it shouldn't be too difficult. Two rooms with variable content, interact with the only present element to go to the other one. Painfully slow loading time. Only "core" of the idea, no advanced features like warparound and such.
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Yikes... indeed it's painfully slow...
setting the speeds of the elements to "even faster" and using the technique in this level might improve it: http://www.zomis.net/rnd/download.php?id=583

I thought for a long time how to make all elements change at the same time but with different change pages, it turns out that it wasn't so difficult after all :D It should be extensible and all that too...

Unfortunately I just didn't have time to make real worlds.. I let someone else do that instead :)
Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

Ah, I see what do you mean! I looked at the level before reading your post, and didn't understand how it's related to WMC, but you're right, this could be useful!

The Loader is mainly slow because I had to create those letters (and each sector had to have different letter to allow distinct sectors), but this should work too! (Maybe it'll even be possible to make 32 sectors per room!) I'm not sure if I'll have time to change it, so if anyone wants to play with it, you're welcome.

* - sector = 3x3 area
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Yeah, I think it could be very useful. The downside is, however, that you need to define all those change pages even if they are empty or not. But I think that since most occations where you'd use this technique actually defines all sectors it's not a big problem.

And using a border and some CEs with CE values and the "change when digging <border element>" condition (which works correctly in 3.2.3-0 and above) you could make the initial creation of the sector-creation-elements faster as well. I'll upload an example level of this when the archive is up again.
Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

I don't know why, but the technique you posted doesn't seem to always work reliably. In the level I made a CE2 that changes to itself when switched, and changed CE1-CP1 to change after CBP (change-by-page) of CE2. Third and fourth changepages of CE1 were switched. Also, in the development version of The Loader v2, it doesn't seem to work at all. (CP1 is triggered for all sectors.)
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Tomi wrote:I don't know why, but the technique you posted doesn't seem to always work reliably. In the level I made a CE2 that changes to itself when switched, and changed CE1-CP1 to change after CBP (change-by-page) of CE2. Third and fourth changepages of CE1 were switched. Also, in the development version of The Loader v2, it doesn't seem to work at all. (CP1 is triggered for all sectors.)
I'm totally confused by that description :? why do you need two CEs? Why switch the third and fourth changepages of CE1? Please, submit an example level so that it's easier to investigate what's wrong.
Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

Uploaded. http://www.zomis.net/rnd/download.php?id=594

BTW I think I found an alternative technique that should work and isn't so slow as The Loader v1.
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

I did not see what's wrong with that level... :roll:

Anyway, I have now improved my version of the world making technique,
http://www.zomis.net/rnd/download.php?id=366
Important Note: Level needs 3.2.3-0 or higher to run, because of the "change when digging element" bug.
So far it's only one world, but it wouldn't be too hard to make more.
Tomi
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Post by Tomi »

Sorry, my mistake! Now I realize that the level works as designed, I just thought it was supposed to do something else.

And about your level: well done, Zomis, well done! Actually, it may be possible to use it even in 3.2.2, when one replaces the "digging GE1" condition by "touching GE1 at bottom side" in CE1 and "touching GE1 at right side" in CE3. (Of course, this could malfunction if a level border element is inside the level, but probably it also wouldn't work in your version.)
Of course, lots of things (e.g. an eraser of previous room) are missing, but that's because it's just the base of the technique, and they shouldn't be very hard to add.

I'm very pleased that the World Making Challenge resulted in such a wonderful technique! One of its primary goals was to make techniques better than what would I make alone, and I'm really happy that it worked!
Tomi
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Location: Slovakia

Post by Tomi »

So, now that there are two solutions for assignment 2, time has come for...

Assignment 3
Modify a solution of assignment 2 (or create a new one) and add RnDZelda-like wraparound for it. The solution you make should have at least 6 rooms.
Optional: search for the forum/RNDFA for any other useful techniques worth integrating.

I really wonder how hard this will turn out to be. When I attemted it in The Loader v2-dev, it was very difficult, but maybe using Zomis' technique (btw Zomis what about giving it a name?) will make it easier, because it doesn't need outer-border elements and such things.



Btw, Martijn, I'm not sure if WMC could serve as a CE tutorial (on bd-fans.com it's under "Tutorials"), for a variety of reasons: 1. The assignments are very advanced. 2. Here people share their solutions. 3. There isn't a "right" solution, some solutions are just better than others. *But* I don't mind if this forum topic is linked from bd-fans.com, or even if you provide downloads of useful techniques/levels to look at (and they can even be in one archive), or compilation of information from this forum topic, or anything else. In fact, it may make more people find and then join WMC. But please 1. don't present it as a tutorial, but as a challenge/contest, 2. do whatever you do in a way that prefers(is this the right word?) sharing of solutions on the forum/RNDFA/somewhere, 3. use a phrase like "check how other people solved the assignments" instead of "check if your solution is right". Thanks.
If anyone other has thoughts on this, you're welcome to discuss, of course.
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Tomi wrote:So, now that there are two solutions for assignment 2, time has come for...

Assignment 3
Modify a solution of assignment 2 (or create a new one) and add RnDZelda-like wraparound for it. The solution you make should have at least 6 rooms.
Optional: search for the forum/RNDFA for any other useful techniques worth integrating.

I really wonder how hard this will turn out to be. When I attemted it in The Loader v2-dev, it was very difficult, but maybe using Zomis' technique (btw Zomis what about giving it a name?) will make it easier, because it doesn't need outer-border elements and such things.
RnDZelda-like warparound...? So that you can move into different rooms and when you enter a new room the content is re-created and you're placed at the oppositing side from where you "left", I guess? I think the border elements could be used for this... and Alan has already created a warparound technique using border elements, hasn't he? (Just don't remember where that file is...-_-), so this shouldn't be too hard.

Useful techniques worth integrating...? Something that came to my mind was randomness, using CEs and GEs... with the detailed layout created using this technique, placing some CEs or GEs at strategic locations could result in some interesting things... (something that just came to my mind is Maze creation).
Tomi
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Location: Slovakia

Post by Tomi »

Yes, the wraparound technique is already made, and is available at bd-fans.com and zomis.net/rnd. I think most of my trouble with integrating it came from the fact that The Loader required specific border elements on specific positions in the border, and they could conflict with CEs from wraparound.
Zomis
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Post by Zomis »

Tomi wrote:Actually, I think when "CE-value conditioned change-pages" will get implemented, I'll have implemented, I'll be able to make multiple rooms per CE!
I think that would be already possible using the technique in my version of the world making challenge.

And I don't see Alan's version of warparound anywhere... I wonder where that can be found. But well, I guess Francesco's version use more or less the same technique.

And by the way, I have no idea what to call my version... any suggestions are welcome...
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