Rocks'n'Diamonds

It seems that CEEL just registered...;)
He'll react much more on his own New Idea's because he can see if there are new posts... And we can see whenever he is online :)
When he was a guest, I was thinking Thank God he knows how to snap! ;) (no offense, CEEL... just many of those guests ask how to snap anything in a level - in the older forums and I think in the new ones too there were thousands of threads with "tutorial level 001 impossible???".)

> When he was a guest, I was thinking Thank God he knows how to snap! ;)

You made me laugh with this one! :-D

> there were thousands of threads with "tutorial level 001 impossible???"

:-D

Yes, that's right! It's indeed one of the most asked questions. (Also by personal mail to me.) I will add some more info and help on this one to the envelope of the first tutorial level that needs snapping...

And: Welcome, CEEL, to the forum! I'm happy to see that you're a registered member now! (Even though I may add this mod that enables "save" guest posting and enable guest posting again...)

Great. No its not longer possible that we are auto logged out.
And post as guest.
(Before pressing submit its better to make a copy btw.)

> (Before pressing submit its better to make a copy btw.)

Not really needed: When logged out while posting, just login again, press the browser's "back" button twice and finally submit your post! :-)

Hey what's this talk here
I know some of the original games very well but
new interface & engines, tons of options and some bugs makes it 'confusing' at times for anyone.
So many different games in one draws motley crowds here with their special needs like me.

And Rocky you won't catch me logged in here for longer periods.(I think I set that option off by the way..)
I usually do my business quick here.
And with no spamming either to draw my attention, probaly less now..LOL

CEEL

Hi Ceel

So many different games in one draws motley crowds here with their special needs like me.

What "motley crowds" stand for? I don't catch the above.
By the way, what are the needs you're speaking about?

CEs are really powerful - and we have also good modders here, see RnDtest by HAG - that even the hardest levelsets could be made easier - if you're speaking about ease of use.

Just some thoughts inspired by your words...
regards,
Francesco.

> > So many different games in one draws motley crowds here with their
> > special needs like me.
>
> What "motley crowds" stand for? I don't catch the above.

I think I know exactly what CEEL was thinking about! ;-)

("motley crowds" => lots of different people not really fitting together ;-) )

Some are desperately waiting for the new, 99,9% compatible Supaplex engine, others want exactly that for Boulder Dash, some want to have even more esoteric CE options, others think it's already too confusing... ;-)

Oh, well, that's the price of a multi-engine game... :-)

No I think CEEL means:
playing rnd sucks sometimes (unfortunately).
it dont force back the real feeling.

From my sight:
In BD2K3 (level 2) the moving stones kills me.
In WildWest the player run in his own shot.
In SnakeBite level 4 jack kills me (always)
In AbbyKing the player is to quick for controlling in the right way (I dont eat the speed pills) - This happens in many old contributions...
In GlassicGames cross running through a field of diamonds sometimes kill the player.. never happen in real EM (Amiga).
Aso.
(May be you think I am bad in playing - hm may be - the hardest I played is "Forgotten Mine" up to level 10 )

So if version 3.2.0 is ready Holger should spend this little things more time...

But this is imo an other topic..

Hehe,
As you see Francesco,
motley crowds gives motley answers.

But I would never be harsh on a one?man still in development
complex project that all in all works pretty well.

CEEL

But I would never be harsh on a one?man still in development
complex project that all in all works pretty well.

If you're speaking about Holger and RnD, I definitely agree with you: the stuff works "pretty" well (some other programmers would have given up in short time - here we have 10 years of evolution!)

By the way, Holger, I'm not able to enter the "Forum tips and tricks" section, it says that read and write are allowed only to moderators...

> In AbbyKing the player is to quick for controlling in the right way (I dont
> eat the speed pills) - This happens in many old contributions...

Yes. In early versions of R'n'D, the player was indeed faster than the enemies. Therefore, some old levels may only be solvable if the player is faster, even when played with a newer version of the game. That's why the player ist faster than usually in old levels.

> In GlassicGames cross running through a field of diamonds sometimes kill
> the player.. never happen in real EM (Amiga).

What do you mean by "cross running"? Permanently moving horizontally? This should never kill the player. BTW: With 3.2.0 and the new EMC engine, classic Emerald Mine levels will behave just like the original EM on the Amiga, so there is still hope to do it right. :-)

> (May be you think I am bad in playing

I don't think so! There are indeed quicks and bugs in R'n'D that may suck sometimes...

About the level sets "BD2K3", "Wild West" and "Snake Bite": Try the solution tapes to see how to solve these levels. (About "Wild West" and the player running into his own shot: Although I've never experienced this, I believe you that this can happen, of course -- these levels are using very tricky CE configurations, so it's always possible that not everything is working 100% right, as it would maybe in a natively programmed game. But hey! That's the price of clicking together your own, tile-based game! :-) Hope you like these levels anyway. :-) )

> By the way, Holger, I'm not able to enter the "Forum tips and tricks"
> section, it says that read and write are allowed only to moderators...

OOPS!!! Fixed! :-)

>> In AbbyKing the player is to quick for controlling in the right way (I dont
>> eat the speed pills) - This happens in many old contributions...

> Yes. In early versions of R'n'D, the player was indeed faster than the enemies. Therefore, some old levels may only be solvable if the player is faster, even when played with a newer version of the game. That's why the player ist faster than usually in old levels.

But this levels are unplayable! If you press once the player goes twice or more. Specially the first level.
Any hint (setup or keystroke)?

>> In GlassicGames cross running through a field of diamonds sometimes kill
>> the player.. never happen in real EM (Amiga).

> What do you mean by "cross running"? Permanently moving horizontally? This should never kill the player. BTW: With 3.2.0 and the new EMC engine, classic Emerald Mine levels will behave just like the original EM on the Amiga, so there is still hope to do it right.

Running down then 2 or 3 steps right then up (through the whole field) then 2 or 3 steps right then down aso.
Compare amiga an rnd - then you see it. In later version of RnD this was better! You changed
this I think..

> There are indeed quicks and bugs in R'n'D that may suck sometimes...

To many little things (bugs?). The feeling is different to real EM.
The joystick control is sometimes not accurate enough.

> About the level sets "BD2K3", "Wild West" and "Snake Bite":
> Try the solution tapes to see how to solve these levels. (About "Wild West" and the player running into his own shot: Although I've never experienced this, I believe you that this can happen, of course -- these levels are using very tricky CE configurations, so it's always possible that not everything is working 100% right, as it would maybe in a natively programmed game. But hey! That's the price of clicking together your own, tile-based game! Hope you like these levels anyway. )

I had done this!!! But this dont help. I dont want to play in single step mode lower speed or with
other tricks. (And if possible without tapes)

Now think about to a beginner. He have only the glassic's. (Where the tutorials are sometimes to tricky)
download then the contibutions (where often not really playable)
Then download BD2K3, Snakebite or WildWest or all the others..
And from game to game he says: nice, nice but more or less unplayable.
Yes I know, boijster have taped many levels which says the different.
(may be taped with older versions of rnd?)

So what is the feeling of the amiga games.
You can play it. The control reacts like you suggest.
If you lose you try again harder and harder.
And somehow you play a complete level set from 1..80.
- May be there is sometimes no other solution (like set handicap "off" in rnd).
So up to now for this using UAE is better...

Unfortunatly there are to less levelsets out of this type...
(Playable levelsets from 1..80, which the player says: more, more, ...)
(Not to easy, but playable - like perone01 to perone06)

Btw: I really hope in 3.2.0 this becomes better.

- Split related post to a new thread please -

(Strange thing: I'm sure I have already answered the first part of this last post, but maybe my browser window went away halfway...)

> But this levels are unplayable! If you press once the player goes twice or
> more. Specially the first level.

I've tested this with exactly that level, and I was able to move step by step in single steps between ten and twenty times without problems. Maybe there's somethings wrong with your keyboard? :-o

> Running down then 2 or 3 steps right then up (through the whole field)
> then 2 or 3 steps right then down aso.

Also just did this with a large diamond field many times -- no problems, never killed.

> Compare amiga an rnd - then you see it.

The difference to the original engine is that it is synchronised to a multiple of eight frames. If you have played with the R'n'D engine a lot, you can "feel" it (the player does not always immediately react).

> In later version of RnD this was better! You changed this I think..

Hmm, I don't think so; as far as I now, this aspect of the game was never changed. But if this feels better in later versions (and was worse in earlier versions), all should be happy, even though I think it's unchanged... :-)

> To many little things (bugs?). The feeling is different to real EM.

Yep, that's right indeed. About the "quirks": It's interesting to see that synchronised engines like the BD and EM engine have nearly no suchs quirks, while the SP and R'n'D engine, which are asynchronous, have a lot of them (at least in SP well known as "tricks", although they are really bugs).

> The joystick control is sometimes not accurate enough.

I also have experienced such things, but so far it was always the joystick for me (the Competition Pro USB really is a lot less precise than the original Amiga one). But you may be right that the threshold is to large or to small; this should be changeable in the setup file...

> I had done this!!! But this dont help. I dont want to play in single step
> mode lower speed or with other tricks.

You don't have to! You can just play them normally and solve them all! It's really possible even without "dirty tricks", although some of them are really hard. :-)

> So what is the feeling of the amiga games.
[...]
> So up to now for this using UAE is better...
> Unfortunatly there are to less levelsets out of this type...
> (Playable levelsets from 1..80, which the player says: more, more, ...)
> (Not to easy, but playable - like perone01 to perone06)
> Btw: I really hope in 3.2.0 this becomes better.

If you like the behaviour of the original EM/EMC engine, it definitely will! :-)

And the new EMC level collection will not only contain the Per One Mines 1 to 6, but all in all at least 33965 levels in at least 362 sets (with at least 25683 unique levels). (There are still a few EMC disks not yet added.)

Just yesterday I have played level 101 from the original Emerald Mine in R'n'D and in UAE for testing purposes, and besides little differences in the sound engine (the original game never plays more than two or four sounds at a time) and with scrolling in two player mode, both versions nearly felt the same, at least for me (played with keyboard, as my USB Competition Pro is not very good, as mentioned)...

So there's some hope that the Emerald Mine experience will get better! :-)

> It's interesting to see that synchronised engines like the BD and EM engine have nearly no suchs quirks, while the SP and R'n'D engine, which are asynchronous, have a lot of them

Just asking, what do "synchronised" and "asynchronous" mean in this context?

> Just asking, what do "synchronised" and "asynchronous" mean in this
> context?

Oops, sorry for not explaining this -- it means the following: The game engines of the games Boulder Dash and Emerald Mine only allow player and element movement at the same time (synchronous). For the BD engine, this is only natural, as the player and other moving objects just move in one step from one tile to the next. Emerald Mine moves its objects in eight small steps to make things smooth and allow for soft-scrolling of the screen. So one complete movement from one tile to the next is done in eight game frames. But each of these eight movement steps are always the same for all moving objects; after the 8th step, all elements on the playfield have either reached their destination field, or do not move at all.

In contrast to this, the Supaplex engine and the R'n'D engine allow elements to start moving in every game frame. So it is possible that one element starts moving while another one is just halfway on its way from one tile to the next one (asynchronous). This allows for plenty of opportunities for things going "wrong" -- for example, when do two objects touch or hit each other? This difference is the reason that the BD and EM engines are virtually bug-free, while the SP and R'n'D engines have a lot of bugs and quirks, and (at least for the R'n'D engine) it is not expected that there will ever be a "100% totally bug-free" version of the game engine because of the high complexity due to this reason.