Another bug: when you are pushing a bomb in the EMC Mine 3 GFX, at the last frame you are pushing the bomb the bomb will be standing over Rockford for one frame, then it goes back to where it should be.
EDIT: It has to be the R'n'D engine. It isn't like that on the EM engine.
pre-release 3.2.0-7
Moderators: Flumminator, Zomis
Umh, seems that we'll have to wait a little before the next mayor release... all these bugs stepping out of the darkness... well, on the other hand I haven't got the time to practice on the new options, so I think I'll wait before starting any new project.
What could I say now? Good hunting, maybe...
What could I say now? Good hunting, maybe...
Anyway, by the way, have fun!
Francesco
Francesco
A little status update to problems I already commented:
- EMC network games should be fixed now, including tapes
- switching focus in network games is now also disabled (not needed there)
- internal errors in network games now cause an error message, but not an immediate end of the program, which looks like a crash to Windows users
- key graphics (green/blue key problem) are fixed now
- screen should now scroll correctly when focus is set to first player
About some new observations:
> - I hear the normal background music playing in the levelsets
> using the EM engine.
That could be considered a bug. I've fixed it the way Martijn suggested.
> - In all the four levelsets (gfx as well as non-gfx versions), the following
> happens:
> if you save the game and then load it, you start in multiplayer mode. The
> second player appears. And if you saved it beyond the field of vision of
> the second player, you don't see yourself anymore!
Not sure if I understand this problem. You mean when you save a tape in single-player mode and reload it, the game switches over to multi-player mode? This would indeed be strange... :-o
> - The yam yam animation in level 3 (actually 4, as it starts from 0) of the
> Emerald Mine (GFX) levelset is wrong.
Yeah! I had to slow down the game to see this, but you're perfectly right!
I've fixed this little bug!
> - You don't hear the sound of an opening exit [...]
> - The levelset [...] doesn't have a screaming Rockford sound [...]
Rockford4ever already perfectly answered these two! :-)
> - the levels in the non-GFX version of Emerald Mine use grass, but the
> GFX version uses sand!
This is one of the oddities of the EMC engine. The people who wrote it seem to prefer "green sand" instead of "brown sand". Later they added "brown sand" back again. Therefore, the original "sand" is green in the EMC engine and the additional element is the normal, brown sand. This is especially confusing for older levels which only had the normal, brown sand. I've changed the EMC level loader code to replace "grass" with "sand" for all "old" levels (with EM version 4 or lower). Now it should at least look OK for the classic EM sets. (This is all only visible when using the R'n'D graphics.)
> - the keys in the side panel in the versions with the old graphics (the sets
> using the EM engine) look like the standard RnD keys instead of the
> Emerald Mine keys. Maybe giving these a bit an older look in these
> levels?
The problem was only that the wrong graphics were used -- see the "green/blue key problem". Using the correct graphics has fixed both problems. :-)
> And of course, you need an expansion of the key display, as there are
> still four more keys.
This won't be easy without redesigning all "door" graphics (including the graphics of all custom artwork sets)! Oh, well... :-o
> - Level 9 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) has the standard graphic for the
> quicksand with a rock in the level editor, but in the level they are shown
> as yellow empty quicksand! Doesn't the quicksand with a rock have to
> use this yellow graphic in the editor as well?
Theoretically yes. Unfortunately, the EMC graphics do not provide different graphics for quicksand with or without a rock, but only the in-game graphics. Therefore, it would be impossible to distinguish between these two in the level editor! As I cannot add this graphic for all the EMC sets (some with different quicksand graphics), I have to use the R'n'D one. But then, it's only in the level editor, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, I think...
> 9. in E.M.C. Mine 3 (no GFX), level 9, you can see that the animation of a
> rock coming out of quicksand is still wrong
Yep, this bug still has to be fixed. This is a really hard one, I'm afraid... :-o
> Another bug: when you are pushing a bomb in the EMC Mine 3 GFX, at the
> last frame you are pushing the bomb the bomb will be standing over
> Rockford for one frame, then it goes back to where it should be.
> EDIT: It has to be the R'n'D engine. It isn't like that on the EM engine.
Oops... This is a very strange bug! :-O Not investigated yet...
Thanks for reporting those bug, I hope I will be able to fix them all.
I think I will throw in a "really last" pre-release so you can then test again...
- EMC network games should be fixed now, including tapes
- switching focus in network games is now also disabled (not needed there)
- internal errors in network games now cause an error message, but not an immediate end of the program, which looks like a crash to Windows users
- key graphics (green/blue key problem) are fixed now
- screen should now scroll correctly when focus is set to first player
About some new observations:
> - I hear the normal background music playing in the levelsets
> using the EM engine.
That could be considered a bug. I've fixed it the way Martijn suggested.
> - In all the four levelsets (gfx as well as non-gfx versions), the following
> happens:
> if you save the game and then load it, you start in multiplayer mode. The
> second player appears. And if you saved it beyond the field of vision of
> the second player, you don't see yourself anymore!
Not sure if I understand this problem. You mean when you save a tape in single-player mode and reload it, the game switches over to multi-player mode? This would indeed be strange... :-o
> - The yam yam animation in level 3 (actually 4, as it starts from 0) of the
> Emerald Mine (GFX) levelset is wrong.
Yeah! I had to slow down the game to see this, but you're perfectly right!
I've fixed this little bug!
> - You don't hear the sound of an opening exit [...]
> - The levelset [...] doesn't have a screaming Rockford sound [...]
Rockford4ever already perfectly answered these two! :-)
> - the levels in the non-GFX version of Emerald Mine use grass, but the
> GFX version uses sand!
This is one of the oddities of the EMC engine. The people who wrote it seem to prefer "green sand" instead of "brown sand". Later they added "brown sand" back again. Therefore, the original "sand" is green in the EMC engine and the additional element is the normal, brown sand. This is especially confusing for older levels which only had the normal, brown sand. I've changed the EMC level loader code to replace "grass" with "sand" for all "old" levels (with EM version 4 or lower). Now it should at least look OK for the classic EM sets. (This is all only visible when using the R'n'D graphics.)
> - the keys in the side panel in the versions with the old graphics (the sets
> using the EM engine) look like the standard RnD keys instead of the
> Emerald Mine keys. Maybe giving these a bit an older look in these
> levels?
The problem was only that the wrong graphics were used -- see the "green/blue key problem". Using the correct graphics has fixed both problems. :-)
> And of course, you need an expansion of the key display, as there are
> still four more keys.
This won't be easy without redesigning all "door" graphics (including the graphics of all custom artwork sets)! Oh, well... :-o
> - Level 9 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) has the standard graphic for the
> quicksand with a rock in the level editor, but in the level they are shown
> as yellow empty quicksand! Doesn't the quicksand with a rock have to
> use this yellow graphic in the editor as well?
Theoretically yes. Unfortunately, the EMC graphics do not provide different graphics for quicksand with or without a rock, but only the in-game graphics. Therefore, it would be impossible to distinguish between these two in the level editor! As I cannot add this graphic for all the EMC sets (some with different quicksand graphics), I have to use the R'n'D one. But then, it's only in the level editor, so it shouldn't be too big of a problem, I think...
> 9. in E.M.C. Mine 3 (no GFX), level 9, you can see that the animation of a
> rock coming out of quicksand is still wrong
Yep, this bug still has to be fixed. This is a really hard one, I'm afraid... :-o
> Another bug: when you are pushing a bomb in the EMC Mine 3 GFX, at the
> last frame you are pushing the bomb the bomb will be standing over
> Rockford for one frame, then it goes back to where it should be.
> EDIT: It has to be the R'n'D engine. It isn't like that on the EM engine.
Oops... This is a very strange bug! :-O Not investigated yet...
Thanks for reporting those bug, I hope I will be able to fix them all.
I think I will throw in a "really last" pre-release so you can then test again...
10. Is level 79 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (both versions) possible at the beginning? and where does that irritating ticking sound in the non-GFX version come from?
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11. It is even possible to use the EMC Mine 3 graphics for the other sets! Wow! great! I will probably not play with the standard RnD graphics so very often anymore... 
But the other way around is not possible. EMC Mine 3 cannot use the BD2K3 graphics for example. Did you know about this? Is that just impossible? Well, if not, it should definetely be reported here.
12. I see that the original emerald mine club all had another title screen. see here for example:
http://amiga.emucamp.com/emerald/g/goldnuggets2.html
and here as another example:
http://amiga.emucamp.com/emerald/d/denmine.html
currently, those screens aren't displayed. Isn't that a pity? wouldn't it be nice if those screens would appear as menu background? or if that would look strange, then how about adding an extra option on the 'info screen' in the main menu? I mean an extra menu option, like 'levelset info', but with another name ('original title screen' for example)
and if you like this, it would also be nice to hear the emerald mine title screen music playing while viewing the original title screen!
But the other way around is not possible. EMC Mine 3 cannot use the BD2K3 graphics for example. Did you know about this? Is that just impossible? Well, if not, it should definetely be reported here.
12. I see that the original emerald mine club all had another title screen. see here for example:
http://amiga.emucamp.com/emerald/g/goldnuggets2.html
and here as another example:
http://amiga.emucamp.com/emerald/d/denmine.html
currently, those screens aren't displayed. Isn't that a pity? wouldn't it be nice if those screens would appear as menu background? or if that would look strange, then how about adding an extra option on the 'info screen' in the main menu? I mean an extra menu option, like 'levelset info', but with another name ('original title screen' for example)
and if you like this, it would also be nice to hear the emerald mine title screen music playing while viewing the original title screen!
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> But the other way around is not possible. EMC Mine 3 cannot use the
> BD2K3 graphics for example. Did you know about this? Is that just
> impossible? Well, if not, it should definetely be reported here.
Sounds a bit strange... I'll investigate this...
> 12. I see that the original emerald mine club all had another title screen.
> see here for example:
[...]
> currently, those screens aren't displayed. Isn't that a pity?
Yes, it is!
> wouldn't it be nice if those screens would appear as menu background?
> or if that would look strange, then how about adding an extra option on
> the 'info screen' in the main menu? I mean an extra menu option, like
> 'levelset info', but with another name ('original title screen' for example)
This is an extremely good idea!!!
This will be hard work, as the graphics have to be ripped out of several file formats (plain ILBM files, raw "pic" files with the palette info coded in the EM binary, and intro programs that directly contain the graphics in the executable). Decoding and ripping these data formats really won't be easy, but most probably will be f*cking great fun! 8-)
Of course it would also be possible to just make screenshots from within UAE, but this would take ages and would be incredibly boring. So I will see if I can do all this with little programs in C and Perl... :)
I will see what I can do... ;-)
> and if you like this, it would also be nice to hear the emerald mine title
> screen music playing while viewing the original title screen!
I've already ripped it as an MP3 and added it to the original V4 games (but not to the V5 and V6 games -- originally, it was only included with the one original Emerald Mine, but I'll add it to all V4 sets which also use the original font, I think).
> BD2K3 graphics for example. Did you know about this? Is that just
> impossible? Well, if not, it should definetely be reported here.
Sounds a bit strange... I'll investigate this...
> 12. I see that the original emerald mine club all had another title screen.
> see here for example:
[...]
> currently, those screens aren't displayed. Isn't that a pity?
Yes, it is!
> wouldn't it be nice if those screens would appear as menu background?
> or if that would look strange, then how about adding an extra option on
> the 'info screen' in the main menu? I mean an extra menu option, like
> 'levelset info', but with another name ('original title screen' for example)
This is an extremely good idea!!!
This will be hard work, as the graphics have to be ripped out of several file formats (plain ILBM files, raw "pic" files with the palette info coded in the EM binary, and intro programs that directly contain the graphics in the executable). Decoding and ripping these data formats really won't be easy, but most probably will be f*cking great fun! 8-)
Of course it would also be possible to just make screenshots from within UAE, but this would take ages and would be incredibly boring. So I will see if I can do all this with little programs in C and Perl... :)
I will see what I can do... ;-)
> and if you like this, it would also be nice to hear the emerald mine title
> screen music playing while viewing the original title screen!
I've already ripped it as an MP3 and added it to the original V4 games (but not to the V5 and V6 games -- originally, it was only included with the one original Emerald Mine, but I'll add it to all V4 sets which also use the original font, I think).
But where did you add it? Only as background music in the main menu, I assume? For it shouldn't be used as level background music, as the original didn't have music playing there!Holger wrote:I've already ripped it as an MP3 and added it to the original V4 games (but not to the V5 and V6 games -- originally, it was only included with the one original Emerald Mine, but I'll add it to all V4 sets which also use the original font, I think).
And you omitted this report:
10. Is level 79 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (both versions) possible at the beginning? and where does that irritating ticking sound in the non-GFX version come from?
By the way, when do you expect the new version to be ready? The Summer holidays are coming closer... it would be nice to have some fun then
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> But where did you add it? Only as background music in the main menu,
> I assume?
Yep, exactly!
> For it shouldn't be used as level background music, as the original didn't
> have music playing there!
That's right.
> And you omitted this report:
>10. Is level 79 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (both versions) possible at the beginning?
Not in 3.2.0-7. This was due to an engine change in the latest version of the EM engine I was using as the base for the new EM engine. Fortunately, I also have a second (older) version of that code, and the level you mentioned is playable in this version! So I analysed the changes and changed the engine back so that level 79 of EMC Mine 3 works fine now. If I understand the comments in the code right, this will probably break other EMC levels then. *sigh* We'll have to see which levels this change might affect... :-|
> and where does that irritating ticking sound in the non-GFX version come
> from?
This is the sound of the "magic ball" creating new elements (or trying to create new elements). Try the "gfx" version and you will hear that sound, too (but with a different sound sample). Maybe I should choose another sound when using the R'n'D artwork...
> By the way, when do you expect the new version to be ready? The
> Summer holidays are coming closer... it would be nice to have some fun
> then
I know... Unfortunately,. I have practically no free time these days. Our "big" project (in the company I'm working for) is close to launching, and I'm also working at the weekends and at night for this. So please keep this in mind when you experience very long delays of answers to forum posts or personal mails -- I just have no time at the moment, but I will try to answer every mail and post later...
> I assume?
Yep, exactly!
> For it shouldn't be used as level background music, as the original didn't
> have music playing there!
That's right.
> And you omitted this report:
>10. Is level 79 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (both versions) possible at the beginning?
Not in 3.2.0-7. This was due to an engine change in the latest version of the EM engine I was using as the base for the new EM engine. Fortunately, I also have a second (older) version of that code, and the level you mentioned is playable in this version! So I analysed the changes and changed the engine back so that level 79 of EMC Mine 3 works fine now. If I understand the comments in the code right, this will probably break other EMC levels then. *sigh* We'll have to see which levels this change might affect... :-|
> and where does that irritating ticking sound in the non-GFX version come
> from?
This is the sound of the "magic ball" creating new elements (or trying to create new elements). Try the "gfx" version and you will hear that sound, too (but with a different sound sample). Maybe I should choose another sound when using the R'n'D artwork...
> By the way, when do you expect the new version to be ready? The
> Summer holidays are coming closer... it would be nice to have some fun
> then
I know... Unfortunately,. I have practically no free time these days. Our "big" project (in the company I'm working for) is close to launching, and I'm also working at the weekends and at night for this. So please keep this in mind when you experience very long delays of answers to forum posts or personal mails -- I just have no time at the moment, but I will try to answer every mail and post later...
But if you release version 3.2.0 with this old code and later you will change the code again, will the tapes of the EMC levels played with the new EM engine be broken then?Holger wrote:I analysed the changes and changed the engine back so that level 79 of EMC Mine 3 works fine now. If I understand the comments in the code right, this will probably break other EMC levels then. *sigh* We'll have to see which levels this change might affect...
Are you able to use the old as well as the new code? If I'm right, you already do that, don't you? Some older levels use the older code and the newer ones use the new code (or parts of the code, which are relevant). Or don't you do it this way?
Happy working!
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> May I ask
Yes, of course! ;-)
> if you have fixed the "CE value for triggering element" issue I've
> mentioned earlier?
Oops, I've nearly forgot about that.
Yes, I've already fixed and even enhanced this. Now you have not only one element, but the following four ones:
- CE value of element triggering change
- CE score of element triggering change
- CE value of current element
- CE score of current element
So you can now use the CE value and CE score, both for the current and the trigger element.
Hope that helps! :-)
There will be a last 3.2.0-8 before the final release to check this out and tell me if it works for you.
Yes, of course! ;-)
> if you have fixed the "CE value for triggering element" issue I've
> mentioned earlier?
Oops, I've nearly forgot about that.
Yes, I've already fixed and even enhanced this. Now you have not only one element, but the following four ones:
- CE value of element triggering change
- CE score of element triggering change
- CE value of current element
- CE score of current element
So you can now use the CE value and CE score, both for the current and the trigger element.
Hope that helps! :-)
There will be a last 3.2.0-8 before the final release to check this out and tell me if it works for you.
> But if you release version 3.2.0 with this old code and later you will
> change the code again, will the tapes of the EMC levels played with the
> new EM engine be broken then?
Probably yes. Unfortunately. :-(
> Are you able to use the old as well as the new code?
Theoretically, yes.
> If I'm right, you already do that, don't you?
Yes, but only in the R'n'D engine, not in the EMC engine.
> Some older levels use the older code and the newer ones use the new
> code (or parts of the code, which are relevant). Or don't you do it this
> way?
Unfortunately, it does not work this way. In the case of the EMC levels, we have something around 40.000 existing levels which all exist now. The engine changes I told about (in the EMC engine and now in my version of this engine) all try to get as most as possible of these existing levels to be solvable. This may require changes which then break other existing levels.
In the R'n'D engine, I always have versions and know exactly which version of the game corresponds to which versions of the levels and tapes, because I store all these information in the corresponding data files. This way I can adjust the engine effectively to the levels and tapes you just play (or re-play).
In the EMC engine, there are only rudimentary "major" versions that you have to "guess" (more or less).
But then, the change I'm talking about only affects the spring -- with that change, it's possible that a newly created spring is moving immediately, which was not possible in the implementation I used before (based on the newer version of the base game engine)...
I know it sounds a bit confusing...
> Happy working!
Thanks a lot! We will launch today... :-)
Hope I don't have to work on Easter... :-o
> change the code again, will the tapes of the EMC levels played with the
> new EM engine be broken then?
Probably yes. Unfortunately. :-(
> Are you able to use the old as well as the new code?
Theoretically, yes.
> If I'm right, you already do that, don't you?
Yes, but only in the R'n'D engine, not in the EMC engine.
> Some older levels use the older code and the newer ones use the new
> code (or parts of the code, which are relevant). Or don't you do it this
> way?
Unfortunately, it does not work this way. In the case of the EMC levels, we have something around 40.000 existing levels which all exist now. The engine changes I told about (in the EMC engine and now in my version of this engine) all try to get as most as possible of these existing levels to be solvable. This may require changes which then break other existing levels.
In the R'n'D engine, I always have versions and know exactly which version of the game corresponds to which versions of the levels and tapes, because I store all these information in the corresponding data files. This way I can adjust the engine effectively to the levels and tapes you just play (or re-play).
In the EMC engine, there are only rudimentary "major" versions that you have to "guess" (more or less).
But then, the change I'm talking about only affects the spring -- with that change, it's possible that a newly created spring is moving immediately, which was not possible in the implementation I used before (based on the newer version of the base game engine)...
I know it sounds a bit confusing...
> Happy working!
Thanks a lot! We will launch today... :-)
Hope I don't have to work on Easter... :-o
Just noticed something really wierd...
Ive recently started making a new levelset called Puzzle Levels (for now)
however whenever I quit the game, then reload it, it starts me on the Puzzles levelset instead of Puzzle Levels on the corrisponding level i was last on, so if i was on level 20 of puzzle levels then close the game, it would put me onto level 20 of Puzzles.
Ive recently started making a new levelset called Puzzle Levels (for now)
however whenever I quit the game, then reload it, it starts me on the Puzzles levelset instead of Puzzle Levels on the corrisponding level i was last on, so if i was on level 20 of puzzle levels then close the game, it would put me onto level 20 of Puzzles.