Requests.for R&D engine.
(Some If they could be implemented as option you can set).
Running 3.2.0.6 on Windows.
General:
- Option for choosing slower (E.M) speed for amoeba.Is way too fast at lowest setting 1.
Had many levels using a slow moving amoeba.
- R&D rocks, Enable to push randomly over quicksand like E.M.
(And animation for rocks falling through quicksand).
- One Magic wheel should be active only at once.
(Option could be to have an attracting radius for each wheel.)
- Rocks fall off magic wheel (not in E.M).(Maybe an option for this.)
- Somewhat bigger visible playfield, at least a block or two at each side
Head to head collisions with creatures too common..
Or Maybe just better centering of player at middle as he seems to drift off
too near the visible screen even when not at level edges.
The EM engine scroll at each block moving and the R&D at 4? blocks from edges
Having a less scrollable screen is prefarable as in R&D and I like it.
The optimal would be to have some wider visible play area and be able to set
the scrolling 0-x blocks.
A quick fix could be an option to choose scroll starts at 4-8?(center)
blocks from screen edges.
Default should be 5 or 6 blocks from edges with the current play screen size.
- Option for rocks falling through rows of diamonds so they stop at crushing
one only at each fall (as in E.M).
- If you have rocks in two vertical rowns falling through a common empty space
in the middle, the rocks from the left side all fall first.
These should fall alternating or random.
|O O| 'Null state'
|O O|
-- --
| O| Rocks falling down.
| OO|
--O--
For multiplayer (LAN)
- Some blocks remain as strange 'ghost' blocks when already taken
for the second player that comes along (often sand?,gems and keys).
(Not always visible before stepping on them?)
- Pressing space only for restarting level like in single player.(Now Esc then space)
Other note:
Running out of explosions is possibe at times but I consider it a feature
now rather than a bug.
As R&D is a better game than the original EM
I hope these options could be implemented in the R&D engine.
As option rather than static so they don't break levels.
If these minor 'flaws' are issued I don't need running EM engine at all
even when playing old made EM levels.
Some other minor issues seem 'non critical'.
CEEL
Ideas for Rocks'n'Diamonds
Moderators: Flumminator, Zomis
-
Guest
The little stone outline above shows a bit faulty but i guess you get it.
A minor option request.
A quick double key tap (or similar) could be used to set
a short fuse for dynamite as in EM.
And maybe as most other sounds seem to be implemented
why not an option for the original EM fuse sound.
Could be used as default sound for the above only.
Thanks for your efforts.
CEEL
A minor option request.
A quick double key tap (or similar) could be used to set
a short fuse for dynamite as in EM.
And maybe as most other sounds seem to be implemented
why not an option for the original EM fuse sound.
Could be used as default sound for the above only.
Thanks for your efforts.
CEEL
Hello CEEL and welcome to the forum.
I splitted your post from the "pre-release 3.2.0-6" thread in the Bug Reports section to the New Ideas section.
I see that you're referring a lot to Emerald Mine, and if I'm not mistaken I think that the EM engine isn't completely finished yet. So maybe some of your ideas will be implemented in the final version of 3.2.0, we'll see.
Multiplayer playing has indeed a couple of bugs and missing features, but Holger (author of RND) will focus more on those in the not-so-near future.
And I think Holger will reply to your post soon (if he doesn't miss it, which I will make sure he doesn't), so enough from me for this moment.
I splitted your post from the "pre-release 3.2.0-6" thread in the Bug Reports section to the New Ideas section.
I see that you're referring a lot to Emerald Mine, and if I'm not mistaken I think that the EM engine isn't completely finished yet. So maybe some of your ideas will be implemented in the final version of 3.2.0, we'll see.
Multiplayer playing has indeed a couple of bugs and missing features, but Holger (author of RND) will focus more on those in the not-so-near future.
And I think Holger will reply to your post soon (if he doesn't miss it, which I will make sure he doesn't), so enough from me for this moment.
Welcome CEEL to this forum! :-)
I'm glad to know some more people here with a good knowledge of the original Emerald Mine (Club) engine! :-)
> Requests.for R&D engine.
One big question right at the start: I assume that you are aware of the new Emerald Mine (Club) engine in the current 3.2.0-x pre-release versions (also, with some limitations, in the current stable 3.1.2), and I understand some of what you wrote as requests to add EMC features to the native R'n'D engine. (If I should be wrong, and you haven't found out about this, please take a look at the "INFO" page of the level editor, where you can select the game engine you want to use for your level. But I think you know this. :-) )
Let me start with a few notes though. The native EMC engine was added because it's impossible to make the R'n'D engine 100% compatible with EMC style levels without breaking lots of native R'n'D levels. Therefore, fixing EMC engine related bugs will be done in the new EMC engine, if needed.
> - Option for choosing slower (E.M) speed for amoeba.Is way too fast at
> lowest setting 1.
> Had many levels using a slow moving amoeba.
This was my main indication that you're talking about the R'n'D engine and not the new EMC engine, because the EMC engine uses exactly the speed for the amoeba as in the old, original EM/EMC levels.
If you want to use the same speed values as in the classics, this can be done 1:1 with the EMC engine. Else (for the R'n'D engine) you would have to use a lower value for the amoeba speed.
> - R&D rocks, Enable to push randomly over quicksand like E.M.
That could be added as an additional feature switch, yes.
> (And animation for rocks falling through quicksand).
Hmm, what's wrong with the current animation?
> - One Magic wheel should be active only at once.
> (Option could be to have an attracting radius for each wheel.)
> - Rocks fall off magic wheel (not in E.M).(Maybe an option for this.)
These two could also be added as new options.
The EMC engine should behave as you described here.
> - Somewhat bigger visible playfield, at least a block or two at each side
This may indeed come in a future version.
BTW: The visible area of R'n'D is indeed bigger than that of the classic EM/EMC! (17x17 > 12x20!)
> Head to head collisions with creatures too common..
Hm, what do you mean exactly? I'm afraid I did not understand this right... :-/
> Or Maybe just better centering of player at middle as he seems to drift
> off too near the visible screen even when not at level edges.
Do you mean the "scroll delay" here? You can disable it in the setup menu!
> The EM engine scroll at each block moving and the R&D at 4? blocks from
> edges
Yes, this is an inconsistence. The original EMC engine does not support delayed scrolling, and I haven't added it (like in R'n'D) to the new engine yet.
> Having a less scrollable screen is prefarable as in R&D and I like it.
Then I'll add it! :-)
> The optimal would be to have some wider visible play area and be able to
> set the scrolling 0-x blocks.
Yep, a configurable scroll delay is an option that might be added in a future version.
> A quick fix could be an option to choose scroll starts at 4-8?(center)
> blocks from screen edges.
See the menu "setup" -> "graphics" -> "scroll delay"! :-)
> - Option for rocks falling through rows of diamonds so they stop at
> crushing one only at each fall (as in E.M).
Definitely a new option worth also for the R'n'D engine, indeed!
> - If you have rocks in two vertical rowns falling through a common empty
> space in the middle, the rocks from the left side all fall first.
That's right. The engine scans from left to right...
Don't know if/how I should change this without a random "fall delay"...
> For multiplayer (LAN)
> - Some blocks remain as strange 'ghost' blocks when already taken
> for the second player that comes along (often sand?,gems and keys).
>
> - Pressing space only for restarting level like in single player.(Now Esc
> then space)
Oops?! I will check this when improving the network part... (Hope I'll remember this bug then.)
> Running out of explosions is possibe at times but I consider it a feature
> now rather than a bug.
So you don't want me to change this?
I think it could indeed be an option for the player (and should be disabled by default)...
> I hope these options could be implemented in the R&D engine.
I think many of them are good ideas and should be added, yes!
> As option rather than static so they don't break levels.
Yep, that's exactly how it should be done! :-)
> If these minor 'flaws' are issued I don't need running EM engine at all
Indeed it's mainly there to run old, classic levels in a compatible way (rather that using it for newly created levels, which you are free to do, of course).
> even when playing old made EM levels.
Well, quite a few of them do indeed require a 99,9% compatible engine -- there are a lot of EMC levels that depend on proper timing to be solvable.
> The little stone outline above shows a bit faulty but i guess you get it.
Yep, I did! :-)
> A quick double key tap (or similar) could be used to set
> a short fuse for dynamite as in EM.
I'm not sure what you mean here -- could you please explain a bit further?
> And maybe as most other sounds seem to be implemented
> why not an option for the original EM fuse sound.
> Could be used as default sound for the above only.
Oops -- just noticed that I use the R'n'D sound even when the EM artwork is activated. This is a bug! I have to fix this...
I'm glad to know some more people here with a good knowledge of the original Emerald Mine (Club) engine! :-)
> Requests.for R&D engine.
One big question right at the start: I assume that you are aware of the new Emerald Mine (Club) engine in the current 3.2.0-x pre-release versions (also, with some limitations, in the current stable 3.1.2), and I understand some of what you wrote as requests to add EMC features to the native R'n'D engine. (If I should be wrong, and you haven't found out about this, please take a look at the "INFO" page of the level editor, where you can select the game engine you want to use for your level. But I think you know this. :-) )
Let me start with a few notes though. The native EMC engine was added because it's impossible to make the R'n'D engine 100% compatible with EMC style levels without breaking lots of native R'n'D levels. Therefore, fixing EMC engine related bugs will be done in the new EMC engine, if needed.
> - Option for choosing slower (E.M) speed for amoeba.Is way too fast at
> lowest setting 1.
> Had many levels using a slow moving amoeba.
This was my main indication that you're talking about the R'n'D engine and not the new EMC engine, because the EMC engine uses exactly the speed for the amoeba as in the old, original EM/EMC levels.
If you want to use the same speed values as in the classics, this can be done 1:1 with the EMC engine. Else (for the R'n'D engine) you would have to use a lower value for the amoeba speed.
> - R&D rocks, Enable to push randomly over quicksand like E.M.
That could be added as an additional feature switch, yes.
> (And animation for rocks falling through quicksand).
Hmm, what's wrong with the current animation?
> - One Magic wheel should be active only at once.
> (Option could be to have an attracting radius for each wheel.)
> - Rocks fall off magic wheel (not in E.M).(Maybe an option for this.)
These two could also be added as new options.
The EMC engine should behave as you described here.
> - Somewhat bigger visible playfield, at least a block or two at each side
This may indeed come in a future version.
BTW: The visible area of R'n'D is indeed bigger than that of the classic EM/EMC! (17x17 > 12x20!)
> Head to head collisions with creatures too common..
Hm, what do you mean exactly? I'm afraid I did not understand this right... :-/
> Or Maybe just better centering of player at middle as he seems to drift
> off too near the visible screen even when not at level edges.
Do you mean the "scroll delay" here? You can disable it in the setup menu!
> The EM engine scroll at each block moving and the R&D at 4? blocks from
> edges
Yes, this is an inconsistence. The original EMC engine does not support delayed scrolling, and I haven't added it (like in R'n'D) to the new engine yet.
> Having a less scrollable screen is prefarable as in R&D and I like it.
Then I'll add it! :-)
> The optimal would be to have some wider visible play area and be able to
> set the scrolling 0-x blocks.
Yep, a configurable scroll delay is an option that might be added in a future version.
> A quick fix could be an option to choose scroll starts at 4-8?(center)
> blocks from screen edges.
See the menu "setup" -> "graphics" -> "scroll delay"! :-)
> - Option for rocks falling through rows of diamonds so they stop at
> crushing one only at each fall (as in E.M).
Definitely a new option worth also for the R'n'D engine, indeed!
> - If you have rocks in two vertical rowns falling through a common empty
> space in the middle, the rocks from the left side all fall first.
That's right. The engine scans from left to right...
Don't know if/how I should change this without a random "fall delay"...
> For multiplayer (LAN)
> - Some blocks remain as strange 'ghost' blocks when already taken
> for the second player that comes along (often sand?,gems and keys).
>
> - Pressing space only for restarting level like in single player.(Now Esc
> then space)
Oops?! I will check this when improving the network part... (Hope I'll remember this bug then.)
> Running out of explosions is possibe at times but I consider it a feature
> now rather than a bug.
So you don't want me to change this?
I think it could indeed be an option for the player (and should be disabled by default)...
> I hope these options could be implemented in the R&D engine.
I think many of them are good ideas and should be added, yes!
> As option rather than static so they don't break levels.
Yep, that's exactly how it should be done! :-)
> If these minor 'flaws' are issued I don't need running EM engine at all
Indeed it's mainly there to run old, classic levels in a compatible way (rather that using it for newly created levels, which you are free to do, of course).
> even when playing old made EM levels.
Well, quite a few of them do indeed require a 99,9% compatible engine -- there are a lot of EMC levels that depend on proper timing to be solvable.
> The little stone outline above shows a bit faulty but i guess you get it.
Yep, I did! :-)
> A quick double key tap (or similar) could be used to set
> a short fuse for dynamite as in EM.
I'm not sure what you mean here -- could you please explain a bit further?
> And maybe as most other sounds seem to be implemented
> why not an option for the original EM fuse sound.
> Could be used as default sound for the above only.
Oops -- just noticed that I use the R'n'D sound even when the EM artwork is activated. This is a bug! I have to fix this...
> Please remember that many levels rely on the 17x17 visible playfield
That's right. Needed for custom artwork (like Jue's menu backgrounds), but also for the levels themselves!
I think the best solution is a setup option to allow overriding this, just as there is an option for overriding custom artwork. If people just want to do it (even if they spoil themselves when playing a level designed for a 17x17 view), they should be allowed to do so -- just like disabling the handicap.
That's right. Needed for custom artwork (like Jue's menu backgrounds), but also for the levels themselves!
I think the best solution is a setup option to allow overriding this, just as there is an option for overriding custom artwork. If people just want to do it (even if they spoil themselves when playing a level designed for a 17x17 view), they should be allowed to do so -- just like disabling the handicap.
-
Guest
Amoeba speed:
The lowest speed 1 in R&D engine is too fast in my taste..
I would like some slower rates.(Half of R&D speed 1 and more)
As I've converted levels from EM to R&D.
Now using the R&D speed 1 the amoeba overflows so there must be some speed imbalances.
As you say the EM engine has right speed (I think?) and not R&D.
Without breaking any levels you could use negative values for slower amoeba
in R&D but this is a bit strange I would agree.
As I would like ONLY to use the R&D engine hereafter and it's advantages
slower amoba speeds would be needed.
I've tested the 2 different growing amoebas by the way.
I would like to have speeds really slow..
So you can have it in some distant place thriving slowly overtime
without well thriving too much so to say.(Talking time span 5-10 min and not hours)
The trouble seems to be that the amoeba grows exponentially
as bigger it gets the faster it expands.
This could/should be set to grow at constant rate not allowing
every new amoeba piece to have it's own ambitions..
This could be the trouble I'm experiencing or maybe only the faster general speed.
Maybe create non exponetial and steady growing..
It's logical to have it grow exponentially though
but maybe they had some reduce growth factor in the original growth code.
Not tested this too much though I'll leave it to you developers to decide.
Some slower speeds could fix it for me anyhow.
R&D amoeba speed 1 is fast and using anything above is not to be released in the open.
The distinction between each amoeba level is is also diffuse.
It's just fast, fast and a litte faster.
Talking R&D here.
Another amoeba detail I recall from EM.
If you have one block dripping amoeba enclosed left top right in some walltype
and dripping down into acid some blocks below
the amoeba would almost never be able to expand outside it's 'trap'.
So you could have it dripping from a point above
This seem to work in R&D also after testing.
Used this 'trick' in some levels
----------------
WWW (W)all
WAW (A)moeba dripping
d drip
PPP Acid (P)ool
----------------
Rock-quicksand animation.
After checking
EM engine has jumpy animation, not enough frames!?
R&D engine has nice animation.
This should be easy to fix as copy R&D anim/code to EM anim/code ?!
Maybe your developercode loads some other anim?
And I really need that pushing rocks randomly over quicksand!
The escaping explosions is not such a big issue although it can be misued with
the right technique quite easily, but it's hard work ingame often.
Head to head collisions simply means that when you run
at some direction and a critter come running in the opposite towards you.
You can't see it in time and the reaction time for turning away is very slim.
In EM you have more time to turn around and avoid collision as
you can see more what's ahead of you and therefore more time to react.
This has become the most common death cause in my opinion.
Yes the scrolldelay is very good but it starts scrolling 1 or 2 blocks too
late which gives the above critter-player collisions..(if not very concentrated..)
As the scrolldelay gives more enjoyable stable view I stick to it.
If the visible playfield was larger we could have even bigger scrolldelay to a certain extent.
The scrolldelay blocks should be configurable or put 1-2 blocks less for now.
Bigger playfield is not important really, fixing the scrolldelay blocks should fix it
Test running towards a bug with and without the current scrolldelay
A different experience..
If you play the original (Amiga) EM1 from 1987 I think
there was dynamite which exploded in half time as the current in R&D.
You could do more 'precision work' with these but they were also
dangerous as they exploded so fast.Blowing up yourself was common.
They had a special sound, havn't heard it in the game.
In R&D you could perhaps use the snap key, fast double tap to set these off.
So you could have different fuses to use for the dynamite
Another type could be a remote detonated dynamite (snap+drop key perhaps)
but that's maybe out of the spectrum here.
I'm not suggesting new dynamite types only new fuse type (and keys)
to set these off.
As to those rocks(objects) always falling from the left side first.
If it is possible to randomize more the general object fall direction left right.
Some special cases always give a clear 'left side' falling advantage.
When object piles stabilize they do seem to use a alternating fall pattern.
If this left advantage is set as some kind of rule of the game so be it.
Like the walking direction of bugs etc.
Randomizing would/could of course change every map some each time playing.
But I would like that
This is not a big problem and the priority could be low on fixing this for now.
---
Other:
Default score/collect values for items should be set in editor
as I seem to be setting them all the time or can they be saved somewhere
except in the levels?. All are set to 10 as I can see.
Consider these otherwise.
Emerald 1
Diamond 3
Nutcrack 2
Dynamite 1
Key 10
The other scoring values I use to set 10 all.
'This gives a reasonable total score.'
Some Multiplayer thoughts.
Damage bar!
When someone dies in the beginning of MP they'll squeal about restart and that sucks
and waiting for the others finishing a long level sucks more.
Especially when playing up to 4 players on network (big levels)
(I belive, havn't tried 4 player).
Suggestion would be to have somekind of damagebar which let you take some hit(s).
Players could be crippled (slowed down) and or loose their dynamite(not sure about this)
and points.They could then slowly autoheal to get rid of silly health pills.
This way you can hang on longer and less dirty talk.
This is also a option for children playing this (hard) game.
Kamikaze playing to get rid of critters should be punished as above.
As a player of EM since the beginning this is a bit odd but the two cases
above require some rethinking in my experience.
The kind of levels I play are even hard to finish single.
Add 3 other minds and the difficulty overall rockets.
Restarting frenzy.
Another maybe more logically option would be to have lives.
And a respawn either near leader,near deathpoint or at spawn- or startpoint.
Not sure how too implement such thing logically into the game though.
but for MP this should be considered for fun factor and get rid of restarts
and bad behaviour.
Although I must admit having lives would suck but in larger netgames necessary
too keep the morale.
Some more.
- In multiplayer some (overlay) text message when a player dies over network.
- Some player level stats in SP and MP in someway besides score.
(breakup of collected items and kills if possible.. time and more)
I'm not really so interested in 100% compability engines.
I rather play more 'randomizing' engines nowadays
but if you could try fix some of the 'problems' above that would be appreciated.
CEEL
The lowest speed 1 in R&D engine is too fast in my taste..
I would like some slower rates.(Half of R&D speed 1 and more)
As I've converted levels from EM to R&D.
Now using the R&D speed 1 the amoeba overflows so there must be some speed imbalances.
As you say the EM engine has right speed (I think?) and not R&D.
Without breaking any levels you could use negative values for slower amoeba
in R&D but this is a bit strange I would agree.
As I would like ONLY to use the R&D engine hereafter and it's advantages
slower amoba speeds would be needed.
I've tested the 2 different growing amoebas by the way.
I would like to have speeds really slow..
So you can have it in some distant place thriving slowly overtime
without well thriving too much so to say.(Talking time span 5-10 min and not hours)
The trouble seems to be that the amoeba grows exponentially
as bigger it gets the faster it expands.
This could/should be set to grow at constant rate not allowing
every new amoeba piece to have it's own ambitions..
This could be the trouble I'm experiencing or maybe only the faster general speed.
Maybe create non exponetial and steady growing..
It's logical to have it grow exponentially though
but maybe they had some reduce growth factor in the original growth code.
Not tested this too much though I'll leave it to you developers to decide.
Some slower speeds could fix it for me anyhow.
R&D amoeba speed 1 is fast and using anything above is not to be released in the open.
The distinction between each amoeba level is is also diffuse.
It's just fast, fast and a litte faster.
Talking R&D here.
Another amoeba detail I recall from EM.
If you have one block dripping amoeba enclosed left top right in some walltype
and dripping down into acid some blocks below
the amoeba would almost never be able to expand outside it's 'trap'.
So you could have it dripping from a point above
This seem to work in R&D also after testing.
Used this 'trick' in some levels
----------------
WWW (W)all
WAW (A)moeba dripping
d drip
PPP Acid (P)ool
----------------
Rock-quicksand animation.
After checking
EM engine has jumpy animation, not enough frames!?
R&D engine has nice animation.
This should be easy to fix as copy R&D anim/code to EM anim/code ?!
Maybe your developercode loads some other anim?
And I really need that pushing rocks randomly over quicksand!
The escaping explosions is not such a big issue although it can be misued with
the right technique quite easily, but it's hard work ingame often.
Head to head collisions simply means that when you run
at some direction and a critter come running in the opposite towards you.
You can't see it in time and the reaction time for turning away is very slim.
In EM you have more time to turn around and avoid collision as
you can see more what's ahead of you and therefore more time to react.
This has become the most common death cause in my opinion.
Yes the scrolldelay is very good but it starts scrolling 1 or 2 blocks too
late which gives the above critter-player collisions..(if not very concentrated..)
As the scrolldelay gives more enjoyable stable view I stick to it.
If the visible playfield was larger we could have even bigger scrolldelay to a certain extent.
The scrolldelay blocks should be configurable or put 1-2 blocks less for now.
Bigger playfield is not important really, fixing the scrolldelay blocks should fix it
Test running towards a bug with and without the current scrolldelay
A different experience..
If you play the original (Amiga) EM1 from 1987 I think
there was dynamite which exploded in half time as the current in R&D.
You could do more 'precision work' with these but they were also
dangerous as they exploded so fast.Blowing up yourself was common.
They had a special sound, havn't heard it in the game.
In R&D you could perhaps use the snap key, fast double tap to set these off.
So you could have different fuses to use for the dynamite
Another type could be a remote detonated dynamite (snap+drop key perhaps)
but that's maybe out of the spectrum here.
I'm not suggesting new dynamite types only new fuse type (and keys)
to set these off.
As to those rocks(objects) always falling from the left side first.
If it is possible to randomize more the general object fall direction left right.
Some special cases always give a clear 'left side' falling advantage.
When object piles stabilize they do seem to use a alternating fall pattern.
If this left advantage is set as some kind of rule of the game so be it.
Like the walking direction of bugs etc.
Randomizing would/could of course change every map some each time playing.
But I would like that
This is not a big problem and the priority could be low on fixing this for now.
---
Other:
Default score/collect values for items should be set in editor
as I seem to be setting them all the time or can they be saved somewhere
except in the levels?. All are set to 10 as I can see.
Consider these otherwise.
Emerald 1
Diamond 3
Nutcrack 2
Dynamite 1
Key 10
The other scoring values I use to set 10 all.
'This gives a reasonable total score.'
Some Multiplayer thoughts.
Damage bar!
When someone dies in the beginning of MP they'll squeal about restart and that sucks
and waiting for the others finishing a long level sucks more.
Especially when playing up to 4 players on network (big levels)
(I belive, havn't tried 4 player).
Suggestion would be to have somekind of damagebar which let you take some hit(s).
Players could be crippled (slowed down) and or loose their dynamite(not sure about this)
and points.They could then slowly autoheal to get rid of silly health pills.
This way you can hang on longer and less dirty talk.
This is also a option for children playing this (hard) game.
Kamikaze playing to get rid of critters should be punished as above.
As a player of EM since the beginning this is a bit odd but the two cases
above require some rethinking in my experience.
The kind of levels I play are even hard to finish single.
Add 3 other minds and the difficulty overall rockets.
Restarting frenzy.
Another maybe more logically option would be to have lives.
And a respawn either near leader,near deathpoint or at spawn- or startpoint.
Not sure how too implement such thing logically into the game though.
but for MP this should be considered for fun factor and get rid of restarts
and bad behaviour.
Although I must admit having lives would suck but in larger netgames necessary
too keep the morale.
Some more.
- In multiplayer some (overlay) text message when a player dies over network.
- Some player level stats in SP and MP in someway besides score.
(breakup of collected items and kills if possible.. time and more)
I'm not really so interested in 100% compability engines.
I rather play more 'randomizing' engines nowadays
but if you could try fix some of the 'problems' above that would be appreciated.
CEEL
> [Amoeba speed]
I think this could be changed to being slower without breaking older levels.
> As you say the EM engine has right speed (I think?) and not R&D.
That's right.
> Rock-quicksand animation.
> EM engine has jumpy animation, not enough frames!?
Here are some differences in the engine that also result in differences in the graphics engine. I think at least when using original EMC artwork that it looks correct. Not sure about it when using R'n'D artwork definitions at the moment...
> And I really need that pushing rocks randomly over quicksand!
This is a difference with the game engine which isn't too easy to fix. But theoretically there's always the possibility to add compatibility or feature switches, of course...
> In EM you have more time to turn around and avoid collision as
> you can see more what's ahead of you and therefore more time to
> react.
> This has become the most common death cause in my opinion.
To prevent this, just disable scroll delay.
> As the scrolldelay gives more enjoyable stable view I stick to it.
Some day the delay (in number of tiles) will be configurable...
> Test running towards a bug with and without the current scrolldelay
> A different experience..
Yep, that's right.
> If you play the original (Amiga) EM1 from 1987 I think
> there was dynamite which exploded in half time as the current in R&D.
That's right. And you also need to keep the "drop" button pressed for some time, because Amiga joysticks had only one button (well, two in fact, but both with the same function).
> You could do more 'precision work' with these but they were also
> dangerous as they exploded so fast.Blowing up yourself was common.
I do remember well! I also played it in 1987 for the first time... :-)
> They had a special sound, havn't heard it in the game.
This depends on the artwork that is loaded/active. When playing with the classic EMC artwork (not classic R'n'D artwork), you should hear that "ticking" sound -- but even in my development version this currently does not work correctly and have to be fixed...
> In R&D you could perhaps use the snap key, fast double tap to set these
> off.
> So you could have different fuses to use for the dynamite
This would typically be solved by introducing an additional dynamite element with a shorter ignition time. You can also build this by using CEs, by the way!
> Another type could be a remote detonated dynamite (snap+drop key
> perhaps)
> but that's maybe out of the spectrum here.
Yes... Could also be done with CEs, but must then be ignited by some other CE (like with the yellow disk and terminal in Supaplex).
> I'm not suggesting new dynamite types only new fuse type (and keys)
> to set these off.
Yep... in R'n'D internals this would be solved by adding a new element...
> Default score/collect values for items should be set in editor
> as I seem to be setting them all the time or can they be saved
> somewhere except in the levels?. All are set to 10 as I can see.
At the moment, unfortunately not...
> Consider these otherwise.
> Emerald 1
> Diamond 3
> Nutcrack 2
> Dynamite 1
> Key 10
Are these the original score values from Emerald Mine?
Can't remember anymore (but could check with UAE)...
> Damage bar!
> [other multi-player ideas]
Interesting thoughts for multi-player levels!
This could be added as options indeed!
> I'm not really so interested in 100% compability engines.
> I rather play more 'randomizing' engines nowadays
> but if you could try fix some of the 'problems' above that would be
> appreciated.
I'll see what I can. :-)
On the current roadmap, there are indeed the 99,9% compatible engines for now...
I think this could be changed to being slower without breaking older levels.
> As you say the EM engine has right speed (I think?) and not R&D.
That's right.
> Rock-quicksand animation.
> EM engine has jumpy animation, not enough frames!?
Here are some differences in the engine that also result in differences in the graphics engine. I think at least when using original EMC artwork that it looks correct. Not sure about it when using R'n'D artwork definitions at the moment...
> And I really need that pushing rocks randomly over quicksand!
This is a difference with the game engine which isn't too easy to fix. But theoretically there's always the possibility to add compatibility or feature switches, of course...
> In EM you have more time to turn around and avoid collision as
> you can see more what's ahead of you and therefore more time to
> react.
> This has become the most common death cause in my opinion.
To prevent this, just disable scroll delay.
> As the scrolldelay gives more enjoyable stable view I stick to it.
Some day the delay (in number of tiles) will be configurable...
> Test running towards a bug with and without the current scrolldelay
> A different experience..
Yep, that's right.
> If you play the original (Amiga) EM1 from 1987 I think
> there was dynamite which exploded in half time as the current in R&D.
That's right. And you also need to keep the "drop" button pressed for some time, because Amiga joysticks had only one button (well, two in fact, but both with the same function).
> You could do more 'precision work' with these but they were also
> dangerous as they exploded so fast.Blowing up yourself was common.
I do remember well! I also played it in 1987 for the first time... :-)
> They had a special sound, havn't heard it in the game.
This depends on the artwork that is loaded/active. When playing with the classic EMC artwork (not classic R'n'D artwork), you should hear that "ticking" sound -- but even in my development version this currently does not work correctly and have to be fixed...
> In R&D you could perhaps use the snap key, fast double tap to set these
> off.
> So you could have different fuses to use for the dynamite
This would typically be solved by introducing an additional dynamite element with a shorter ignition time. You can also build this by using CEs, by the way!
> Another type could be a remote detonated dynamite (snap+drop key
> perhaps)
> but that's maybe out of the spectrum here.
Yes... Could also be done with CEs, but must then be ignited by some other CE (like with the yellow disk and terminal in Supaplex).
> I'm not suggesting new dynamite types only new fuse type (and keys)
> to set these off.
Yep... in R'n'D internals this would be solved by adding a new element...
> Default score/collect values for items should be set in editor
> as I seem to be setting them all the time or can they be saved
> somewhere except in the levels?. All are set to 10 as I can see.
At the moment, unfortunately not...
> Consider these otherwise.
> Emerald 1
> Diamond 3
> Nutcrack 2
> Dynamite 1
> Key 10
Are these the original score values from Emerald Mine?
Can't remember anymore (but could check with UAE)...
> Damage bar!
> [other multi-player ideas]
Interesting thoughts for multi-player levels!
This could be added as options indeed!
> I'm not really so interested in 100% compability engines.
> I rather play more 'randomizing' engines nowadays
> but if you could try fix some of the 'problems' above that would be
> appreciated.
I'll see what I can. :-)
On the current roadmap, there are indeed the 99,9% compatible engines for now...
-
Guest
Emerald mine had variable score values.
I belive to give every level a score less than 1000 but not too small
on levels where there wasn't much point gaining activities.
In a 'maxed' normalsize map these standard values below should give a value
less than 1000 or at least not too far from. Let's say:
100 x 1 point Emeralds
10 x 2 points Nutcracks
50 x 3 points Diamonds
4 x 10 points Keys
30 x 1 point Dynamite
30 x 10 points Critter kills
640 points total
I used these points always as far I remember.
They reflect the things you do well on the level and the points are easy to comprehend.
You could diffrentiate the critter kills more and add some here and there if you like.
As every level maker has their own freedom to set what values they like I stop here.
As to the scroll delay isnt't it just changing some value say 5 to 4 to get better
control.
OK, no more about this.
I'm in no hurry, take whatever time it takes.
Just some thoughts to refine this game some.
I'll hang around and read some posts here at the board from time to time.
Thanks for your time,
CEEL
I belive to give every level a score less than 1000 but not too small
on levels where there wasn't much point gaining activities.
In a 'maxed' normalsize map these standard values below should give a value
less than 1000 or at least not too far from. Let's say:
100 x 1 point Emeralds
10 x 2 points Nutcracks
50 x 3 points Diamonds
4 x 10 points Keys
30 x 1 point Dynamite
30 x 10 points Critter kills
640 points total
I used these points always as far I remember.
They reflect the things you do well on the level and the points are easy to comprehend.
You could diffrentiate the critter kills more and add some here and there if you like.
As every level maker has their own freedom to set what values they like I stop here.
As to the scroll delay isnt't it just changing some value say 5 to 4 to get better
control.
OK, no more about this.
I'm in no hurry, take whatever time it takes.
Just some thoughts to refine this game some.
I'll hang around and read some posts here at the board from time to time.
Thanks for your time,
CEEL