Because of many newbies asking about how to solve a level, or are stuck on a level, or wants to skip a level: I suggest that we (read: Holger) changes the default for "Handicap" to Off.
For this, I so far only have the argument that many players does not know about this option, and therefore gets stuck at a level (and maybe deletes the game just because of that! )
I do not see skipping levels as cheating, and I hope the majority doesn't. Some might think about skipping levels as cheating, but I do not.
So, do you think the default setting for "handicap" should be changed from On to Off?
Zomis:
> For this, I so far only have the argument that many players does not
> know about this option,
Although I know that I probably sound a bit harsh here: I also get lots of mail from people who do not know how to unzip a zip archive (really!). :-o
But this should not count as a real argument here. Especially as I just figured out that the "README" file tells that the "handicap" when selecting levels have been removed. (Which is obviously not true.) So, as apparently nobody has ever read this (at least, nobody has ever complained about this wrong docs), I think that nobody will read an explanation about turning off the "handicap" either... ;-)
> and therefore gets stuck at a level (and maybe
> deletes the game just because of that! )
In fact, this has happened to me, too... :-/
(With a few C64 games, if I remember right.)
> I do not see skipping levels as cheating, and I hope the majority doesn't.
> Some might think about skipping levels as cheating, but I do not.
For me, I don't really care if this might be cheating or not, but I know that other do. The only thing is that I have the feeling that turning off the handicap as a default setting is somehow "wrong". :-|
timenn:
> An alternative would be to rename the label "Handicap".
Yes! I never really liked the term "handicap" -- but I have absolutely no idea what might be a better word for it! :-o
Native English speakers: Is there a better word for this?
(Although I'm afraid that a lot of R'n'D players are already quite used to it -- but then, we are thinking of new R'n'D players here!)
Darkon wrote:"Level Skip" maybe?
with an on or off option
I also think it's the best option, in fact I suggested it years ago, so I guess the TODO list is reallllly long. :P
Definitely not setting handicap to off by default - where's the pleasure, wehre's motivation if you can access every level at once? Not to mention the confusion it would cause, especially with the novice users - you would always have to go through the whole levelset to see if you completed all the levels (remember that we're talking about people who have no idea how to turn handicap on/off).
I got used to the name 'handicap', though I never really liked it, so feel free to change it. I have no idea what to replace it with, though. Maybe "all levels" of "full access" or sth (with reversed on/off, of course).
I can't understand why changing the default to off would be "wrong" (as Holger says), but however...
Changing the name "Handicap" to "Level Skip" sounds good, but make sure (Holger) to invert the result of it! Since handicap = on equals level skip = off. I'm sure you find an easy way to fix this.
Ok, so if the level skip option continues to be off in default, then why not show a message when a user tries to go past the current "handicap" level, showing that he needs to finish this level before he can proceed to the next one - or change the option in Setup -> Game Settings...?
Erm, actually I thought of "Level skip" not as an option but as a functionality - you encounter an unsolvable (or too hard) level and you skip it. Simple and no need to set any options. Plus it would make the 'handicap' option redundant, thus solving the problem of naming it. And it would be super-easy for the beginners as well.
Zomis:
> Ok, so if the level skip option continues to be off in default, then why not
> show a message when a user tries to go past the current "handicap"
> level, showing that he needs to finish this level before he can proceed to
> the next one - or change the option in Setup -> Game Settings...?
bojster:
> Erm, actually I thought of "Level skip" not as an option but as a
> functionality - you encounter an unsolvable (or too hard) level and you
> skip it. Simple and no need to set any options. Plus it would make the
> 'handicap' option redundant, thus solving the problem of naming it. And it
> would be super-easy for the beginners as well.
Great solution! (Is this really already on my TODO list?! Probably yes...)
I have just implemented it as follows:
Existing setup option: "handicap"; default value: "on"
New setup option: "skip levels"; default value: "on"
When trying to advance beyond the first unsolved level in the main menu, a requester asks: "Level still unsolved! Skip despite handicap?" Selecting "yes" increments the current handicap level value by one and advances to the next level. This also introduces the term "handicap", so most people will (hopefully) have an idea what it means when changing setup settings.
Skipping levels is active by default, so new users encountering levels which are too hard or unsolvable have no problems to get around that situation, but disabling it gets the exact same behaviour as before.
I think this is the most flexible solution. What do you think?
> Great solution! (Is this really already on my TODO list?! Probably yes...)
Well, I we talked (mailed) about it in March 2004, so I'd like to believe it is... :P
> I think this is the most flexible solution. What do you think?
I think it's at least better than now, but IMO these two options double each other. Wouldn't it be enough to have a feature of skipping levels (but with explicit 'skip' button, e.g. a double-arrow next to the existing arrow icon, not by simply choosing the next level), that would be on by default, but configurable? I think that two similar and overlapping options will be confusing.
I think the only problem with hanicap is the chance the player might forget about which ones they skipped. (I know I would)
What about having a completed status on each level by the map (like a big green tick). I think somebody already mentioned this, but it fits in this thread.
You could then keep the handicap, and there would be no guilt in skipping.
Maybe even have some message for the entire game being finished when they have completed all the levels?
Yup, we've already discussed marking levelsets with different colours depending on whether they're untouched, completed, completed with skipped levels or 'in progress'. But you know how Holger is, we have to remind him... ;-)
bojster wrote:I think it's at least better than now, but IMO these two options double each other. Wouldn't it be enough to have a feature of skipping levels (but with explicit 'skip' button, e.g. a double-arrow next to the existing arrow icon, not by simply choosing the next level), that would be on by default, but configurable? I think that two similar and overlapping options will be confusing.
I agree. But the problem then would be to get newbies to understand the meaning of the double-arrow button...
bojster:
> > Great solution! (Is this really already on my TODO list?! Probably yes...)
> Well, I we talked (mailed) about it in March 2004, so I'd like to believe it
> is... :P
Yes... Now I remember! (And it was indeed in my "IDEAS" file: -> 'add "skip this level" to "handicap on/off"', which wasn't really meant as a setup option, but rather as a functionality on the main screen.)
> Wouldn't it be enough to have a feature of skipping levels (but with explicit
> 'skip' button, e.g. a double-arrow next to the existing arrow icon, not by
> simply choosing the next level), that would be on by default, but
> configurable? I think that two similar and overlapping options will be
> confusing.
I really don't think that they are similar, and not that much overlapping.
All four (well, three) combinations seem useful to me:
1. handicap on, skip level on (default):
People can skip single levels, but are always asked if they really want.
Especially, fast scanning through whole level sets is not possible.
This seems to be a good default for new players.
2. handicap on, skip level off:
The setting for "die hard" R'n'D players.
3. handicap off, skip level on or off:
Directly select each and every level, without any warnings or notifications.
Useful if you just don't care about solving levels before seeing the next one.
I think asking "skip this unsolved level" is better than adding a new button to the user interface.
Alan:
> I think the only problem with hanicap is the chance the player might
> forget about which ones they skipped. (I know I would)
That's right.
> What about having a completed status on each level by the map (like a big
> green tick). I think somebody already mentioned this, but it fits in this
> thread.
Yes, this is the best solution. Having a level tape for this level only indicates that you have played this level, but not if you have solved it or not. So such a status mark would be the best.
This is something which I already wanted to add (together with a "number of players" icon which shows how many players can play this level).
> You could then keep the handicap, and there would be no guilt in
> skipping.
But if you would simply allow skipping, it would be harder to advance to the next unsolved level for a given set -- now, you could just press the right mouse button a few times and are done (without skipping, which only works for the left mouse button). Selecting the skipped levels would of course require looking at the "solved" mark.
And although nobody should feel guilty when skipping levels, the new default setting would prevent people from accidently skipping unsolved levels.
> Maybe even have some message for the entire game being finished
> when they have completed all the levels?
Yes, that's also something worth adding.
bojster:
> Yup, we've already discussed marking levelsets with different colours
> depending on whether they're untouched, completed, completed with
> skipped levels or 'in progress'.
The last two should be treated the same, I think. Then we could use red for "never played any level from this set", yellow for "already player or solved levels from this set, but there are unsolved levels left" and green for "all levels solved in this set".
If somebody has a better idea for a colouring scheme, please write it here!
(I know that this was discussed before somewhere...)
> But you know how Holger is, we have to remind him... ;-)
That's right. -:)
So please don't stop reminding me of things I might have forgotten... :-)
Zomis:
> But the problem then would be to get newbies to understand the
> meaning of the double-arrow button...
Yes, that's exactly what I though first. ;-)
Another complaint: Once you've learned the meaning of this additional skip button, people would start using only this skip button to advance to the next level, as they see that it will *always* work (regardless of handicaps).
So I also think that it will be more confusing than helpful to the novice user.
)
