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Where did the elements in the "RND" section of the editor originate?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
by ncrecc
Some of the elements in the RND category seem like the kind of things that would be ports of elements from other Boulder Dash clones, but what clones are they from? Or did all of those elements debut in Rocks'n'Diamonds itself?

I'm specifically wondering about the origins of:
  • The doors you can walk on instead of passing through
  • The FUEL orb
  • The Pac Man creature (more than "it's from Pac Man!", of course :P)
  • The speed pill
  • Dark Yam-Yam
  • The non-sokoban lamps
  • Biomaze
  • Dynabombs
  • The penguin
  • The pig
  • The dragon

Re: Where did the elements in the "RND" section of the editor originate?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:02 am
by Eizzoux
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The FUEL orb
They pretty much originate from Mindbender. Just check the elements of Mirror Magic engine (or any MM level) and you'll see those FUEL orbs in the game which does the exact thing - adds some energy (time) to your laser (that's actually why it says FUEL, but not TIME or anything).
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The Pac Man creature (more than "it's from Pac Man!", of course :P)
Same for Pacmen, they're used in Mindbender, and they're doing just the same - eating amoeba tiles and changing moving direction after hitting an obstacle.
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The non-sokoban lamps
Again, they're from Mindbender, in Mindbender they're turning on and off on hitting them with laser beam.
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • Dynabombs
They're from Bomberman, it's pretty much obvious.

My assumptions on some other ones:
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The doors you can walk on instead of passing through
I think they come from old Windows/Amstrad/ZX Spectrum/Commodore game called "Chip's Challenge". It is mainly based on collecting keys to open others.
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The speed pill
Not sure about this one, but I think it also comes from "Chip's Challenge", but I'm sure I am wrong.
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • Dark Yam-Yam
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • Biomaze
  • The penguin
  • The pig
  • The dragon
No idea about these ones.

Re: Where did the elements in the "RND" section of the editor originate?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:51 am
by ncrecc
Eizzoux wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 5:02 am
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The doors you can walk on instead of passing through
I think they come from old Windows/Amstrad/ZX Spectrum/Commodore game called "Chip's Challenge". It is mainly based on collecting keys to open others.
ncrecc wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:40 am
  • The speed pill
Not sure about this one, but I think it also comes from "Chip's Challenge", but I'm sure I am wrong.
I know this isn't the case. The doors in Chip's Challenge are erased when you walk on them with the correct key, and all but the green door use up keys the way white doors use up white keys. There was no speed pill in the original Chip's Challenge either. Chip's Challenge 2 has speed boots that let you go twice as fast, but that game was never publicly released until 2015. The Mindbender and Bomberman references sound plausible, though.

Re: Where did the elements in the "RND" section of the editor originate?

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:34 am
by filbo
Holger was the author of Mirror Magic (released as 'Mindbender' -- see viewtopic.php?t=986 for background).

What is not explained in those old messages is whether MM and its elements were entirely newly designed by Holger; other possibilities I can think of are (1) that it was a clone or 'in the spirit of' some other game of the time (then published by a game publishing house); or (2) the game was designed by a game publishing house, and Holger only wrote the code for hire. I suspect some variant of (1).

Later descriptions describe Mirror Magic as a 'clone of Mindbender', but since AFAICT Holger wrote both (and also AFAICT only ever wanted to use the name 'Mirror Magic', 'Mindbender' having been imposed by the publisher), it might better be characterized as an 'update' or possibly 'rewrite' of the original.