When Holger released R&D did he need to seek permission to include the original sokoban/BD levels?
Reason I'm asking is I'm writing my own logic game and I wish to use a small number of levels adapted from the original sokoban puzzles. Do I need to seek permission or can I just go ahead and use them and put 'Thinking Rabbit' in my credits?
Permission?
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> When Holger released R&D did he need to seek permission to include the
> original sokoban/BD levels?
On the first look, the answer seems to be "yes", as both Sokoban and BD are copyrighted by their respective owners. However, what exactly is protected and in which way depends on the country you're living in. For example, while the artwork of a game (like graphics) are protected in most countries as work of art (with the possible constraint that they have to be sophisticated enough to be worth protecting them), the idea of a game cannot be protected in many countries. If the levels are "artwork" or "idea" is not always clearly defined.
In the case of Sokoban, I once did a little research on the web and found hints that "Thinking Rabbit", the (Japanese) company that created the original Sokoban game, agrees to have their original Sokoban levels of 1982 used in game clones if the copyright of Thinking Rabbit is clearly stated, for example on a credits page. As they are so widely spread in dozens, if not hundreds of Sokoban clones, one can (relatively) safely assume that doing so is OK. With BD, created by First Star Software, the situation seems to be a bit different, as they apparently still sell licenses to other companies which then create BD clones. Common sense seems to be here that clones that use the original levels seem to be fine as long as they don't use the original artwork (again, maybe depending on the country), even though there are also clones out there that use the original artwork. But at least in the past, First Star Software tried to enforce their copyright on such clones. (For R'n'D, I once wrote a mail to First Star Software stating that I would like to know if there is any part of my clone that violates FSS copyrights and should be removed therefore, but never got any answer.)
After all, both games are so much part of both computer pop culture and video game history that it seems that both companies have accepted that they can't prevent hobbyist programmers from creating and releasing clones of these classic games to the public (as long as they don't use original artwork or try to make money with them, which wouldn't be easy as there are so many freely available clones out there).
> original sokoban/BD levels?
On the first look, the answer seems to be "yes", as both Sokoban and BD are copyrighted by their respective owners. However, what exactly is protected and in which way depends on the country you're living in. For example, while the artwork of a game (like graphics) are protected in most countries as work of art (with the possible constraint that they have to be sophisticated enough to be worth protecting them), the idea of a game cannot be protected in many countries. If the levels are "artwork" or "idea" is not always clearly defined.
In the case of Sokoban, I once did a little research on the web and found hints that "Thinking Rabbit", the (Japanese) company that created the original Sokoban game, agrees to have their original Sokoban levels of 1982 used in game clones if the copyright of Thinking Rabbit is clearly stated, for example on a credits page. As they are so widely spread in dozens, if not hundreds of Sokoban clones, one can (relatively) safely assume that doing so is OK. With BD, created by First Star Software, the situation seems to be a bit different, as they apparently still sell licenses to other companies which then create BD clones. Common sense seems to be here that clones that use the original levels seem to be fine as long as they don't use the original artwork (again, maybe depending on the country), even though there are also clones out there that use the original artwork. But at least in the past, First Star Software tried to enforce their copyright on such clones. (For R'n'D, I once wrote a mail to First Star Software stating that I would like to know if there is any part of my clone that violates FSS copyrights and should be removed therefore, but never got any answer.)
After all, both games are so much part of both computer pop culture and video game history that it seems that both companies have accepted that they can't prevent hobbyist programmers from creating and releasing clones of these classic games to the public (as long as they don't use original artwork or try to make money with them, which wouldn't be easy as there are so many freely available clones out there).
Last edited by Holger on Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LogicDeLuxe
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They asked unlicensed games which use the names Boulder Dash or Rockford to be removed from the internet.Holger wrote:With BD, created by First Star Software, the situation seems to be a bit different, as they apparently still sell licenses to other companies which then create BD clones. Common sense seems to be here that clones that use the original levels seem to be fine as long as they don't use the original artwork (again, maybe depending on the country), even though there are also clones out there that use the original artwork. But at least in the past, First Star Software tried to enforce their copyright on such clones.
They also asked some other clones to be removed, but I'm not sure if it was the original graphics or the caves. Boulderoid was one of such clones.
I think it were the caves though, since they don't seem to have a problem with all those C64 fan games, where the majority use the original graphics, and also partially or even completely the original engine as well.
> They asked unlicensed games which use the names Boulder Dash or
> Rockford to be removed from the internet.
Yep, right -- at least this should be avoided when creating one's own BD clone! (That's also why I mostly write "BD" instead of "Boulder Dash", which has the side effect of not creating too much "Boulder Dash" Google links to my page... Oops, just created another few of them... ;-) )
> They also asked some other clones to be removed, but I'm not sure if it
> was the original graphics or the caves. Boulderoid was one of such clones.
Another prominent "victim" was BoulderRush, a clone which was a near 1:1 clone of the classic original. Also, web sites which offered BD stuff got "cease and resist" letters (well, mails) from FSS to take down their sites or remove all BD related stuff a few years ago. I discussed the situation with some affected people on the net and also still have a copy of the mail that was sent out to them... :-/
> I think it were the caves though, since they don't seem to have a
> problem with all those C64 fan games, where the majority use the
> original graphics, and also partially or even completely the original
> engine as well.
That's a good point indeed -- many of these "hacker disks" or "fan games" from the C64 era (done by die-hard BD fans like "No One") indeed contain the complete original game and only replaced the original levels with fan levels.
But as it seems, the main cause for trouble today seems to be using their not only copyrighted, but trademarked names "Boulder Dash" and "Rockford", and when looking at the BD clones done by FSS license takers, it's mainly those names that are used, but no original artwork or levels. (In fact, I have never seen any "official" clone or successor that contained the original levels from the classic C64 BD game.)
So it seems that most care should be taken where to use (or better not use) these trademarked names. The acronym "BD" seems to be fine, though. ;-)
> Rockford to be removed from the internet.
Yep, right -- at least this should be avoided when creating one's own BD clone! (That's also why I mostly write "BD" instead of "Boulder Dash", which has the side effect of not creating too much "Boulder Dash" Google links to my page... Oops, just created another few of them... ;-) )
> They also asked some other clones to be removed, but I'm not sure if it
> was the original graphics or the caves. Boulderoid was one of such clones.
Another prominent "victim" was BoulderRush, a clone which was a near 1:1 clone of the classic original. Also, web sites which offered BD stuff got "cease and resist" letters (well, mails) from FSS to take down their sites or remove all BD related stuff a few years ago. I discussed the situation with some affected people on the net and also still have a copy of the mail that was sent out to them... :-/
> I think it were the caves though, since they don't seem to have a
> problem with all those C64 fan games, where the majority use the
> original graphics, and also partially or even completely the original
> engine as well.
That's a good point indeed -- many of these "hacker disks" or "fan games" from the C64 era (done by die-hard BD fans like "No One") indeed contain the complete original game and only replaced the original levels with fan levels.
But as it seems, the main cause for trouble today seems to be using their not only copyrighted, but trademarked names "Boulder Dash" and "Rockford", and when looking at the BD clones done by FSS license takers, it's mainly those names that are used, but no original artwork or levels. (In fact, I have never seen any "official" clone or successor that contained the original levels from the classic C64 BD game.)
So it seems that most care should be taken where to use (or better not use) these trademarked names. The acronym "BD" seems to be fine, though. ;-)
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LogicDeLuxe
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- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:23 pm
- Contact:
That's why my BDCFF proposal says GUY instead of any name. And since it is used for other games as well, such a general name is a good idea anyways.Holger wrote:So it seems that most care should be taken where to use (or better not use) these trademarked names. The acronym "BD" seems to be fine, though.
The GBA version does.Holger wrote:In fact, I have never seen any "official" clone or successor that contained the original levels from the classic C64 BD game.
Do you mean "Boulder Dash EX"? Indeed, I just googled a screenshot that shows a menu where you can select between "EX Game" and "Classic Game", where the classic game looks identical to the C64 version:
http://www.gamespot.com/gba/puzzle/boul ... index.html
http://www.gamespot.com/gba/puzzle/boul ... index.html