Rocks'n'Diamonds Top 10

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:59 pm

Using a new version of Rocks'n'Diamonds Database (RNDDB) - which will be beta-released for Windows and Linux later on, I'm able to get any kind of information of all my levels in the database - thanks to the same scripting system as implemented in RnD Scripter.

So once a week, I will post a "Top 10" list here on the forum, this top 10 list can be of nearly any subject at all, since there's so many different things that can be checked. I will try my best to find "interesting" (or maybe sometimes completly pointless) information from levels and levelsets.

The database currently contains 18013 levels in 311. Some of these levels are my own unreleased test levels, and if they should appear in a top 10 list I will just filter them out. I will try to maintain this database with new, and old, released levels and levelsets.

Feel free to comment these Top 10 lists.

So for the first week, here's the Top 10 list.

Top 10 levelsets with the most average count of different elements in the levels
(Example: If a levelset has two levels, one level contains 10 unique elements and one level contains 12 unique elements, the "average count of different elements" for the levelset will be 11).

1. jue - Bug Machine - 1 level, 174 elements
2. Alan Bond - Music Machine - 5 levels, 137.6 elements
3. Alan Bond - Zelda - 1 level, 106 elements
4. Rado W. Negundo - Dangerous Caves - 22 levels, 94.95 elements
5. Sascha Mücke - Love Pac - 1 level, 71 elements
6. Alan Bond - Space Invaders - 1 level, 64 elements
7. Asiekierka - asienet - 1 level, 61 elements
8. Alan Bond - BD2K3 - 43 levels, 58.74 elements
9. Alan Bond - Netwars - 4 levels, 56.5 elements
10. Alan Bond - Snake Bite - 31 levels, 55.87 elements

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:23 pm

Doesn't Zelda have 255 unique elements?........how did you get 106?

Or do you mean elements in the actual map?

Post by **Holger** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 5:47 pm

> Or do you mean elements in the actual map?

Hmm... As RNDDB refers to static level files, stored in a SQL database, it doesn't know about runtime elements actually used within the level (when playing); Zelda probably has 106 different elements in its start configuration stored in the level file.

Indeed, this could make this statistic a bit pointless for certain levels -- there could be a level with lots of elements that are immediately blasted away by burning dynamite (or CEs that disappear by changing) -- or a level with one single CE that "grows" into hundreds of different elements in the first few seconds...

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:28 pm

Holger wrote:> Or do you mean elements in the actual map?

Hmm... As RNDDB refers to static level files, stored in a SQL database, it doesn't know about runtime elements actually used within the level (when playing); Zelda probably has 106 different elements in its start configuration stored in the level file.

Indeed, this could make this statistic a bit pointless for certain levels -- there could be a level with lots of elements that are immediately blasted away by burning dynamite (or CEs that disappear by changing) -- or a level with one single CE that "grows" into hundreds of different elements in the first few seconds...

Well, I got a script checking actual used CEs as well (there's also a "cecount" value in the database based on the number of saved CEs in the levelfile). But yes, I was refering to actual scripts on map. And indeed this statistics isn't reliable on certain levels.

But we all know the three different kinds of lies, don't we? "white lie, black lie, statistics".

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:50 pm

But we all know the three different kinds of lies, don't we? "white lie, black lie, statistics".

75% of statistics are made up

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 9:14 am

Finally, I've made enough changes to RNDDB so that it's working again

There's still things left to fix before a public release though.

Top 10 levels with the most used change pages
(A used change page is a change page with either 'can change' or 'CE action' triggered).
Because of many similar levels (in levelsets) with equal or similar amount of change pages, I've only written down the level with the most pages below:
1. Alan Bond - Snake Bite level 30 - 1244 pages
2. Zomis - World making challenge - 1066 pages
3. Alan Bond - Zelda - 862 pages
4. Manuel Butter - Basebomb level 0 - 489 pages
5. Jue - Puzzle Mix level 56 - 454 pages
6. Manuel Butter - Random Games - 443
7. Jue - R&D West level 11 - 437 pages
8. jannik - Moving Colour Column - 360 pages
9. Jue - R&D Puzznic level 0 - 322 pages
10. Alan Bond - Random Level V2 level 0 - 288 pages
10. Alan Bond - BD2k3 level 38 - 288 pages
10. Zomis - Minesweeper Advanced - 288 pages

I must say that this is quite suprising statistics, I would have guessed that more BD2k3 were higher, and Alan's "Music Machine" (which has 245 pages)

A few more levels and their change page count include:
Zomis - decimal sqrt(x) - 278 pages
Alan Bond - 3d maze - 246 pages
Alan Bond - Defender - 224 pages
Jue - Bug Machine - 202 pages
Francesco - Rockfighter - 139 pages

Suggestions for "Top 10" lists are very welcome

Post by **Holger** » Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:19 am

This statistic is even more interesting than the previous one! :-)

This seems to be a good indicator for the overall complexity of a level with heavy CE usage; in fact, I (more or less) expected many of those levels among the top ten which then really made it to these positions (and also interesting to see how many change pages were used by those additional, selected levels, which are probably well-known to most forum members and for which I would have been curious to see how they rank in that statistic anyway).

So, these are very interesting results! Great work on RNDDB! :-)

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:19 pm

It is very intersesting!

I must say that this is quite suprising statistics, I would have guessed that more BD2k3 were higher, and Alan's "Music Machine" (which has 245 pages)

BD2K3 is just a graphic set really, and I wasted so many CEs doing weird and pointless things (something I don't do much anymore). I'm surprised that Jue1 & 2 aren't the list at all!

This seems to be a good indicator for the overall complexity of a level with heavy CE usage;

I'm not so sure.....If I where to remake Snakebite today, it would have less CPs simply because of the better tools we have (ce_values, offsetX+Y, walkable CEs with no exits.... etc)

Suggestions for "Top 10" lists are very welcome

Hummm, which games have the most levels? (I won't be in that one)

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 8:32 pm

>It is very intersesting!

Thanks

>BD2K3 is just a graphic set really, and I wasted so many CEs doing weird
>and pointless things (something I don't do much anymore). I'm surprised
>that Jue1 & 2 aren't the list at all!

Do you have a link to Jue1 & 2? I've got Jue1 edition but not a single one of those levels have any CEs at all! I downloaded the Jue package from http://www.jb-line.de/rnd_start_e.html
Please let me know if you think I've missed any levels, it might be hard to keep a database as this one up to date :/

>I'm not so sure.....If I where to remake Snakebite today, it would have less
>CPs simply because of the better tools we have (ce_values, offsetX+Y,
>walkable CEs with no exits.... etc)

Yes, indeed we have better tools now and can save a couple of pages. And also, you could make a level (would be quickest to make with a script using RnD Scripter) with 256 CEs - each have maximum change pages. And all the change pages are "change to empty space after delay 0 frames." That would make RNDDB believe that the level has 8192 change pages, but in fact there's no complexity at all. So once again, statistics can lie.
But of course - I'll try to exclude such levels from the "Top 10" lists.

>Hummm, which games have the most levels? (I won't be in that one) Wink

You mean which levelsets have the most levels? No problem, will fix that statistics tomorrow

(Just need to include a couple of levels I haven't in the database already - like the levels by Jamie Cullen or Andreas Buschbeck) - if I will see any changes to the old top 10 lists, I will update them.

Alan · Post by **Alan** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:44 pm

Do you have a link to Jue1 & 2? I've got Jue1 edition but not a single one of those levels have any CEs at all! I downloaded the Jue package from http://www.jb-line.de/rnd_start_e.html
Please let me know if you think I've missed any levels, it might be hard to keep a database as this one up to date :/

I'm not too sure now as it seems to have changed! Jue1 as you say was just a graphic set and levels......but I'm sure Jue2 had CEs, but it's not on his site.

He reworks his old stuff (V7 now) so again, I'm not sure.

You mean which levelsets have the most levels? No problem

Yeah levelsets (I call them games). I've never gone near a big number of levels (they take more time to make then graphics or CEs).......but what is the maximum amount? 255 or 999? Is there even a maximum?

But of course - I'll try to exclude such levels from the "Top 10" lists.

LOL, this is funny because you read my mind......."only as a joke" I was going to make a level that superseded any top 10 critera you made and upload it to the RNDDB, but I didn't

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:30 pm

>Yeah levelsets (I call them games). I've never gone near a big number of
>levels (they take more time to make then graphics or CEs).......but what is
>the maximum amount? 255 or 999? Is there even a maximum?

The maximum is 1000 levels. If first_level = 0 and levels = 1000. So they're ranging from 000.level to 999.level

>LOL, this is funny because you read my mind......."only as a joke" I was
>going to make a level that superseded any top 10 critera you made and
>upload it to the RNDDB, but I didn't

I guess you mean RNDFA, you can't upload files to RNDDB since it's (currently limited to) a local application, so you then needed to upload files to my personal computer - which is impossible (as far as I know, I have it secured enough for that). But of course, I download all the RNDFA files.

>Hummm, which games have the most levels? (I won't be in that one) Wink

Top 10 levelsets with the most amount of levels
1. Sokomania in the Spaceship 2 - 354 levels
2. Ben Braithwaite - Ben 200 (Contributions 2000) - 261 levels
3. Photomap2 - 167 levels
4. sb_microban - 155 levels
5. (A bunch of Supaplex levelsets) - 111 levels each
6. danilo parantar serrano - 107 levels
7. rnd_dorothee_ebner (Contributions 2004) - 106 levels
8. (A bunch of EMC levelsets) - between 102 and 104 levels each
9. Martijn Mooij - Boulder Dash Dream - 102 levels
10. rnd_spica (Contributions 2005) - 101 levels

Post by **Holger** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:25 pm

> The maximum is 1000 levels. If first_level = 0 and levels = 1000. So they're
> ranging from 000.level to 999.level

Well, you can define your level set to contain as many levels as you like. The level number in the level filename is zero padded (format "%03d"), but there can also be a level file "1000.level" or "2048.level". (If such a crazy amount of levels in a single level set makes sense or not is another question, of course.)

> you then needed to upload files to my personal computer - which is
> impossible (as far as I know, I have it secured enough for that).

We'll try that...

> Top 10 levelsets with the most amount of levels
> 1. Sokomania in the Spaceship 2 - 354 levels

What about "emc_super_mine"? It has 1260 defined in its "levelinfo.conf" (although really only containing 762 levels, but indeed with level numbers above 999).

Zomis · Post by **Zomis** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:54 pm

Holger wrote:> Top 10 levelsets with the most amount of levels
> 1. Sokomania in the Spaceship 2 - 354 levels

What about "emc_super_mine"? It has 1260 defined in its "levelinfo.conf" (although really only containing 762 levels, but indeed with level numbers above 999).

I haven't included the native "EMC Collection" in the database, since RNDDB can't read other files than pure Rocks'n'Diamonds levels.

Post by **Holger** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 4:52 pm

Oops! You're right, of course! :-o

RAP · Post by **RAP** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:50 am

Oh finally! I tried finding this topic! Hey Zomis, do you have any plans to actually update this list -- and make more top 10 lists? x3 I would like to hear some interesting results.