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MAnipulation
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by
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Atarakushi
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NESDORI                           2019-07-23 12:48
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SO MANY WAYS TO SOLVE THIS CAVE THAT IT'S DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT THE INTENDED SOLUTION. MY SOLUTION PROBABLY QUITE FAR FROM IT :) A FEW MORE DIAMONDS IS POSSIBLE.

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PITER                             2019-07-23 15:53
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VERY NICE CAVE :)

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ATARAKUSHI                        2019-07-23 22:58
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NEITHER OF YOUR SOLUTIONS ARE QUITE WHAT I HAD IN MIND. IN ALL MY PLAYTESTING I COULDN'T GET piter'S VERSION TO WORK (RELIES ON AMEOBA GROWING IN THE DIRECTION YOU WANT, SO YOU THERE'S A BIT OF LUCK). I DIDN'T REALISE THE AMEOBA COULD BE MANIPULATED IN THE WAY YOU DID, nesdori. I DARESAY THAT'S QUITE OUT OF THE BOX THINKING DESERVING OF THE ADDITIONAL SHINY REWARDS. ;)

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PITER                             2019-07-24 09:50
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I AGREE WITH YOU, atarakushi. MY SOLUTION WAS LUCK-BASED. I REALIZED, WHEN I'VE TRIED TO REPEAT IT. AGAIN AND AGAIN. WITH NO LUCK :-) ONLY FIRST TIME IT WORKED - SEEMS LIKE "BEGINNERS LUCK" ;)   
  
HOWEVER... I HAVE SOME OTHER IDEA, WHICH I'D LIKE TO CHECK :D

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PITER                             2019-07-24 10:02
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LESS POINTS (646), BUT RELIABLE SOLUTION :) STILL NOT WHAT I WANTED :/

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NESDORI                           2019-07-24 11:09
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SO I GUESS THE INTENDED SOLUTION IS THEN TO CONVERT AMOEBA INTO DIAMONDS BY ACTIVATING MAGIC WALL, I WASN'T SURE IF "MAGIC WALLS STOPS AMOEBA" OPTION WAS SET ON BY ACCIDENT OR NOT :)

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ATARAKUSHI                        2019-07-24 12:14
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HUH? THE AMEOBA SOUND NOT BE CONVERTED INTO DIAMONDS WHEN THE WALL IS ON. THAT SOUNDS LIKE A BUG.

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ATARAKUSHI                        2019-07-24 12:16
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AND EDITED. I OVERLOOKED THAT OPTION. ALL MY CAVES ARE MADE IN CLCK AND HAVE BEEN CONVERTED OVER, SO I OVERLOOKED THAT OPTION. I DON'T THINK I'VE EVER PLAYED A CAVE WITH THAT MECHANIC BEFORE. NOT INTUITIVE...

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NESDORI                           2019-07-24 12:27
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"MAGIC WALL STOPS AMOEBA" OPTION IS THERE BECAUSE OF BD1 ENGINE BUG WHERE  AMOEBA IS CONVERTED INTO DIAMONDS IF MAGIC WALL IS ACTIVATED AND ALL PIECES OF AMOEBA ARE BENEATH THE MAGIC WALL. SOME OLD CAVES RELY ON THIS BUG AND WITH THIS OPTION THEY ARE PLAYABLE. SO IT INDEED IS AN EXTENSION TO STANDARD ENGINE BUT ALLOWS SOME NICE TRICKS IN NEWER CAVES AS WELL. krissz'S ENGINE BEHAVIOUR IS DIFFERENT TO BD1 ENGINE SO THAT IF THE OPTION IS SET THEN AMOEBA IS ALWAYS CONVERTED AT MAGIC WALL ACTIVATION, NOT JUST WHEN THE AMOEBA IS BENEATH THE WALL LIKE THE ORIGINAL BUG.

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ATARAKUSHI                        2019-07-24 12:36
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THANKS FOR THE EXPLANATION. SINCE BD1! INTERESTING! I'LL HAVE TO KEEP THIS PHENOMENON IN MIND WHEN I'M PLAYING OTHER CAVES FROM NOW ON, AND BE MORE CAUTIOUS WHEN SUBMITTING MY CAVES :) :O

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NESDORI                           2019-07-24 12:42
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THE BUG WAS FIXED IN BD2, BD1 AND SOME ENGINES DERIVED FROM IT HAVE THIS STRANGE FEATURE.

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ARNO                              2019-07-24 12:49
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BD3 CAVE O AND INTERMISSION 1 ARE PROBABLY THE FIRST CAVES WHICH USE THIS BUG AS A "FEATURE". :-)

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ATARAKUSHI                        2019-07-24 13:01
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I DON'T MIND HAVING LOTS OF SOLUTIONS. YOURS IN PARTICULAR WAS CRAFTY, nesdori. BUT AMEOBA-&GT;MAGIC WALL ELIMINATES ANY SORT OF "MANIPULATION" REQUIRED....

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NESDORI                           2019-07-24 13:49
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I'LL TRY EVEN MORE CRAFTIER SOLUTION LATER WITH MORE DIAMONDS THAN THE PREVIOUS ONE :)

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KRISSZ                            2019-07-24 19:32
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AMOEBA BENEATH THE MAGIC WALL... THIS IS A VERY NEW INFORMATION FOR ME... WHAT IS THE EXACT RULE? WHAT HAPPENED IF THERE ARE LOTS OF MAGIC WALL PIECES IN THE CAVE? WHAT COUNT? THE FIRST PIECE OF MAGIC WALL? AND CONVERT ONLY BENEATH OR AFTER THE WALL IN THE SAME ROW TOO?

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NESDORI                           2019-07-24 23:43
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I THINK THE EXACT BD1 CONVERSION BUG RULE GOES LIKE THIS:  
  
IF ALL AMOEBA PIECES SCANNED BEFORE THE PIECE OF MAGIC WALL WHICH CAUSES MAGIC WALL TO ACTIVATE ARE ENCLOSED, AMOEBA IN CONVERTED INTO DIAMONDS, IF NO AMOEBA PIECES ARE SCANNED BEFORE ACTIVATION, AMOEBA IS CONSIDERED ENCLOSED. SO, AMOEBA DOESN'T HAVE TO BE FULLY BENEATH THE MAGIC WALL, BUT PIECES WHICH ARE ABOVE OR LEFT ON THE THE ROW HAVE TO BE ALL ENCLOSED. I'M NOT 100% SURE ABOUT THE RULE. MAYBE arno CAN CONFIRM?

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ARNO                              2019-07-25 08:25
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THERE ARE SEVERAL THREADS AT BOULDERDASH.NL/FORUM DISCUSSING THIS BUG/FEATURE.  
  
I'VE SEARCHED AROUND A BIT AND THE MOST ACCURATE DESCRIPTION I COULD FIND IS THE FOLLOWING FROM LOGICTHELUXE:  
  
"THE AMOEBA MAY NOT HAVE ANY POSSIBILITY OF GROWING RIGHT OF OR BELOW THE PARTICULAR SPACE FROM WHERE THE BOULDER WAS DROPPED INTO THE MAGIC WALL (THAT IS THE SPACE WHERE THE BOULDER WAS LAST SEEN). THAT'S THE ONLY CONDITION FOR CONVERTING. NEITHER THE CURRENT MAGIC WALL STATE, MAGIC WALL TIMER NOR THE AMOEBA TIMER HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON THIS."

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NESDORI                           2019-07-25 09:30
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arno, THE DESCRIPTION YOU WROTE HAS AMOEBA CHECK WRONG WAY, AMOEBA SCANNED BEFORE NEEDS TO BE ENCLOSED BUT AMOEBA PIECES WHICH ARE SCANNED AFTER THE ITEM WHICH IS ACTIVATING THE MAGIC WALL BY FALLING INTO IT MAY BE EITHER ENCLOSED OR NOT. MY EARLIER RULE HAD ONE INACCURACY. THE SCANNING POINT WHERE THE CONVERSION IS DECIDED IS NOT THE THE PIECE OF MAGIC WALL WHICH ACTIVATES THE MAGIC WALL BUT THE OBJECT WHICH IS FALLING INTO MAGIC WALL AND CAUSES ACTIVATION. BECAUSE IN SCANNING IT'S THE OBJECT WHICH CHECKS IF MAGIC WALL IS BENEATH IT AND NOT MAGIC WALL CHECKING IF THERE'S AN FALLING OBJECT ABOVE IT.  
  
SO AN UPDATE TO MY RULE:  
  
"IF ALL AMOEBA PIECES SCANNED BEFORE AN OBJECT WHICH IS FALLING INTO MAGIC WALL AND CAUSES MAGIC WALL TO ACTIVATE ARE ENCLOSED, OR THERE ARE NO AMOEBA PIECES SCANNED AT ALL BEFORE THE OBJECT, AMOEBA IS CONVERTED INTO DIAMONDS"  
  
I CAN'T TEST THIS RULE THIS BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE AN EDITOR TO EDIT BOULDER DASH 1 (OR BD3 WHICH IS SLIGHTLY MODIFIED BD1 ENGINE) CAVES. IF ANYONE CAN DO THIS, I CAN DESCRIBE THE TEST CAVES NEEDED (3-4 CAVES IS SUFFICIENT).

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ARNO                              2019-07-25 10:41
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nesdori, THX FOR CLARIFYING.   
  
I SEE TWO WAYS FOR TESTING (BUT I CURRENTLY HAVE NO TIME TO SORT THIS OUT...)  
1. USE AN EXISTING CAVE LIKE CAVE G OF DON PEDRO'S BD7. HERE COULD BE USED TO DO SOME TESTS BUT PROBABLY NOT ALL AS YOU DON'T HAVE EDIT FLEXIBILITY.  
2. I'M AWARE OF ONE EDITOR WHICH I BELIEVE ENABLES EDITING OF BD1-STYLE CAVES:  
<a href="http://www.boulder-dash.nl/bdgb/view_game.php?g=ap8502bdpl" target="external">HTTP://WWW.BOULDER-DASH.NL/BDGB/VIEW_GAME.PHP?G=AP8502BDPL</a>  
(BUT I'VE NEVER LOOKED AT IT IN-DEPTH.)

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NESDORI                           2019-07-25 11:54
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arno, THX FOR THE LINKS. I'LL CHECK THE EDITOR IF IT USES BD1 ENGINE OR NOT. IF IT'S NOT, I'LL CODE MY OWN EDITOR WHICH CAN INJECT TEST CAVES STRAIGHT INTO BD1 .TAP OR .D64 FILE. WOULD BE A FUN PROJECT :)

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NESDORI                           2019-07-26 11:06
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arno, I TRIED APOLLO'S GAME/EDITOR AND IT INDEED LOOKS EXACTLY LIKE BD1 AND AFTER FEW FIRST TESTS I THOUGHT IT'S GENUINE BD1 ENGINE COPIED AS IT IS BECAUSE AMOEBA TO DIAMONDS CONVERSION BUG WAS THERE. BUT TO MY SURPRISE AMOEBA WAS CONVERTED IN ANY CASE. IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE IF AMOEBA WAS SCANNED BEFORE OR AFTER THE BOULDER FALLING INTO MAGIC WALL AND ENCLOSED OR NOT ALSO MADE NO DIFFERENCE. I WASN'T ABLE TO BUILD ANY CAVE WHERE THE CONVERSION DID NOT HAPPEN. IT LOOKS LIKE THE ENGINE IS DIFFERENT OR I'M TOTALLY CLUELESS. I'M NOW GOING TO TRY THE TEST CAVES WITH AUTHENTIC BD1 GAME.

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ARNO                              2019-07-26 22:06
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INTERESTING nesdori; THIS SOUNDS LIKE EITHER A MODIFIED BD1 ENGINE, OR A BD2 ENGINE (IN WHICH THIS BUG WAS FIXED, TO MY MEMORY), OR ITS OWN ENGINE...

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ARNO                              2019-07-26 22:07
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... PROBABLY NOT BD2, SINCE I SEE NO SLIME OR GROWING WALL AS AVAILABLE OBJECTS...

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ENRICO                            2019-07-27 18:59
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GREAT CAVE!