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2019-10-26 20:57 dustin  
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this one is just ridiculously easy. just one diamond needed and so many available. amoeba, magic wall, butterflies... easy.

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2019-10-27 01:42 dustin  
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 nesdori  - i had a vague feeling that it might be possible to get bonus diamonds, and your score proves it ;d

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2019-10-27 01:44 dustin  
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aaaah- and now i see how! ;d

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2019-10-27 01:51 dustin  
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so  nesdori  has the official hiscore in this cave - and i made a little change that hopefully closes all holes in my intended solution! after all, this is supposed to be a troll cave and not ahiscore challenge ;p

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2019-10-27 07:51 dustin  
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very nice demo,  robert ! you don't only show the solution, but also how to fall for most of the trolls! ;d

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2019-10-27 09:59 shredder  
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:O

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2019-10-27 10:01 Arno  
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i'm still curious what nedsori did. i've tried to reach a diamond behind a wall in the upper section using effects with multiple fireflies, but didn't yet succeed.  
  
also, i could not spot what change you made to the original...   
but of course, it's still morning, one hour earlier than usual, and i'm shocked by  dustin 's dff discovery... ;-)

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2019-10-27 10:34 nesdori  
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 dustin  trolling so much; he was supposed to do anti-highscore mod but he did highscore-mod! so sneaky! :)

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2019-10-27 10:44 trischi83  
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:-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  
  
37 diamonds.................................  
  
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

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2019-10-27 10:46 trischi83  
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and yes...................................  
  
a highscore cave..........................  
  
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2019-10-27 10:59 shredder  
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i know exactly what to do, but it takes time ;) nice hiscore cave!

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2019-10-27 11:12 shredder  
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i mean i know how to get 27\ so far

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2019-10-27 11:15 nesdori  
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there's even more diamonds possible. so many options.

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2019-10-27 11:34 dustin  
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alright then. the designer intended to troll the players, but now the players troll the designer! I'll leave the cave as it is now, even if i find out how you hiscore guys all do it. i accept that you're too clever for me this time ;d  
 Arno  - the heavy boulders above the slime-ffly-constructions were normal boulders before. i thought  nesdori  had used this to push them away so they didn't kill the fflies. then he could kill the bflies with the boulders because the growing wall didn't block him anymore.   robert 's solution is the intended one, but now the wolves have taken over... ;d ;d

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2019-10-27 12:41 shredder  
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ok got the way to get 33\ with luck. still missing sthing..

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2019-10-27 13:50 shredder  
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hmmm... damn! not sure, maybe i'm wrong...   
i'm trying to convert amoeba to diamonds by activating mw in the same time as explosion of ff reached by amoeba. it's possible or just my utopia? ;D

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2019-10-27 13:54 shredder  
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btw,  dustin  :) please make more caves like this! :) it's awesome!

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2019-10-27 14:08 shredder  
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nvm about amoeba... got the answer :D

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2019-10-27 14:18 dustin  
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is the amoeba thing actually possible? i did check this and thought the result was negative... ;d  
 shredder  - more trolls? if you want... ;d but it's not that easy to find new ideas. troll levels heavily base on the unexpected, and potential surprises in bd base on growing/magic walls and hidden exits. at the moment i don't have new ideas to implement those in troll caves, but if i do get new ideas in the future, then sure, why not? ;d

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2019-10-27 16:50 shredder  
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yeah, i did many tries too, and always failed. so, imo it's impossible to convert amoeba to diamonds with blasting the ff... :(

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2019-10-27 16:50 shredder  
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 nesdori ? :)

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2019-10-27 17:43 shredder  
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cool! it's still possible to block the g-wall ( 2 heavy boulders section ) :O

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2019-10-27 17:57 shredder  
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i'm trying to get 44\ omg! this cave is insane!

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2019-10-27 18:15 shredder  
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ok no way :D

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2019-10-27 18:18 nesdori  
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my latest is 42 diamonds. 44 sounds incredible. i have an idea how to get one more but two :O

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2019-10-27 18:19 shredder  
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no no  nesdori , sorry... i was wrong... missed 1 important thing :(

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2019-10-27 18:21 shredder  
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can you show me your solution? :O this must be a shred 060 like moves with the bflies with blocked g-wall... i don't know :O

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2019-10-27 18:25 nesdori  
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and yes, i don't think amoeba can be converted into diamonds and simultaneously explode the fly. this issue is not standardized engine knowledge but it's engine specific. i didn't know the answer before i tried it and it seems that  krissz 's engine prefers conmverting amoeba into boulders rather into diamonds if there's magic wall activation on the same frame than conversion to boulders is going to happen.

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2019-10-27 18:34 shredder  
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thanks! btw 42\ solution, i know what should be done.   
all bflies must be killed (2x9) and (1x7).

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2019-10-27 18:36 nesdori  
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 shredder , that's right! :)

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2019-10-27 18:38 shredder  
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i'm trying this one... you did it  nesdori  and you're bd terminator :D insane!

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2019-10-27 18:38 nesdori  
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but 2*9+1*7 is not the only option, there's another which can possibly provide more diamonds, i'm trying it now :)

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2019-10-27 18:41 shredder  
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i'm shocked! :O  dustin  want's to troll us and made a fabulous cave! this is awesome :)

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2019-10-27 18:55 nesdori  
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my opinion has always been that the best puzzle ideas are not intentional but accidental. the innocent looking caves usually provide the most challenging puzzles and they are well hidden because they don't feel artificial and too obvious because the creator didn't even try to craft them :)

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2019-10-27 19:29 shredder  
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hmmm... i'm wondering about 42+ \. (3x9) and diamond to block the g-wall somehow?

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2019-10-27 19:43 nesdori  
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that's what i'm trying now; the diamond block for g-wall works. now i'm pondering that how to deal with the remaining guys to get 2*9. they have to be separated but that shouldn't be a big issue. so 44 most probably is possible! :)

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2019-10-27 19:46 shredder  
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i'm blocking the '2 heavy boulders g-wall', separate bflies, kill one by one and at the end take the bottom diamonds using 1 diamond to block the bottom g-wall. trying hard but this is insane...

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2019-10-27 20:09 nesdori  
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i kill the first fly and then take bottom, is easier :)

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2019-10-27 20:12 shredder  
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yes you're right :)

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2019-10-27 20:15 shredder  
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still this solution is dedicated to the terminators :D

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2019-10-28 08:39 Arno  
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my analysis so far:  
  
- with pushing luck it is possible to block the growing wall below the 2 fireflies.  
- then, 27\ can be obtained from the butterflies  
- with 1\ falling behind rockford it is possible to block the bottom-centre growing wall to pick up the 13\ and go back.  
  
this gives 40\, but how do you get 42\?

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2019-10-28 09:02 shredder  
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 Arno  you must drop 1 ff from the upper squares, use it to blast the left bottom single wall ( this gives you 4\).  
  
then you must block first growing wall as you described and kill 3 bflies (2x9) and (1x7) + take all diamonds from the bottom.

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2019-10-28 09:05 shredder  
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i can't get 44\ because remaining boulders are located badly for killing the last bf... ;(

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2019-10-28 09:20 nesdori  
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i'm currently experimenting to get 45.. :)

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2019-10-28 09:32 nesdori  
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in addition to freeing the upper left fly i'm trying to break into the rightmost box and get the diamond. i can smash a corner and already see a glimpse of diamond from a little hole but still can't reach it :)

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2019-10-28 10:13 shredder  
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sounds fantastic! :)   
i'm trying to find a way to kill bf (3x9). there is a light in the end of the tunnel because if you trying to get 45, that means you got (3x9) ;)

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2019-10-28 10:23 shredder  
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i just tried your idea  nesdori  and i'm also smashed the down-left corner of the square by killing the spinning ffly ;)

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2019-10-28 10:25 nesdori  
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it's actually possible to free 3 of the upper flies but no dirt to control them. so i have to control them with just one light boulder and hopefully get one of them back to the rightmost box. one idea is to build a vortex of the two and then using boulder and vortex let the last climb on the box. if this trick works it would be insanely crazy trick!

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2019-10-28 10:26 dustin  
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two questions, guys. 1. what is the most-commented cave on this site so far? and 2. can we break this record? ;d same questions could be posed about "most unintended bonus diamonds" ;d ;d

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2019-10-28 10:30 shredder  
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there is no 'most commented cave' option in database :( i think, in that case only  krissz  can answer this question ;)

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2019-10-28 10:33 shredder  
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 nesdori , in that case, you're using just one light boulder to drop 2 ff somehow?

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2019-10-28 10:34 shredder  
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or you mean 2 dropped ff by lightboulders + 1 spinning ff?

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2019-10-28 10:37 nesdori  
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no, just one with the drop but it can be used to free two more

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2019-10-28 10:41 nesdori  
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but the problem with a vortex is: even if i'm able to create it, i also have to somehow break it because i need one of vortex flies to break bottom left brick wall later on.

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2019-10-28 10:55 shredder  
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in the editor i created a little chaos in the fflies, and then created a vortex between two most right squares. the vortex was placed perfectly to blast the wall and uncover the diamond. but in the editor... not sure about implementing this into the run... keep trying :)

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2019-10-28 10:56 nesdori  
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TIME LIMIT IS ALSO AN ISSUE; IT TAKES TOO MUCH TIME TO FREE 3 IF I DON'T FIND A WAY TO DO IT MORE RAPIDLY.

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2019-10-28 11:00 shredder  
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<a href="https://ifotos.pl/z/qapnxxx" target="external">https://ifotos.pl/z/qapnxxx</a>   
  
yes, the time could be worst enemy to get 45 ;/

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2019-10-28 11:04 nesdori  
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is that edited set-up or real play?

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2019-10-28 11:08 shredder  
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unfortunately editor so far, but i'm trying to get this one in the normal play. not sure it's possible...

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2019-10-28 12:12 shredder  
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 nesdori  heres the way. but it could be done with 85 secs.

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2019-10-28 12:12 shredder  
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85 secs left

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2019-10-28 12:17 shredder  
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1 lightboulder and 1 ffly ready to use ;)

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2019-10-28 12:24 nesdori  
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fantastic run! btw.. you did the first fly separation more cleverly than i did in my previous demos. i pushed the light boulder on the leftmost box to left so that it does fall into a corridor and is useless after then. it's no big deal because there's another light boulder to be used but your way offers more options. very clever!

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2019-10-28 12:30 shredder  
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thanks :) i don't rememer exactly, but in the '85 seconds left' run two fflies travel very closely and created right thing faster...

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2019-10-28 12:34 nesdori  
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yes, 65 seconds is a little tight because it takes some more time to the point where a boulder can be pushed after the fly enters corridor. my 42 solution took 50 seconds from that so 44 has to be done almost as fast as 42 with this start. however, i have an idea how to make the beginning faster.

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2019-10-28 12:46 nesdori  
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 dustin , i quickly browsed through all commented caves and i think this one already has broken the record clearly. it seems that previous record was just 37 comments on " Arno  895 rocky's horror show" :)

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2019-10-28 12:47 shredder  
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i'm trying to drop the second ff with some delay, to catch the ff from the heavy boulder cage.

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2019-10-28 12:48 shredder  
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yeah rocky horror show was hard as hell to me :)

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2019-10-28 12:53 shredder  
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ok i got the way with 92 seconds left. second ff must be dropped with delay (2-3 rounds after pushing the lightboulder to the spinning ff).

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2019-10-28 12:53 nesdori  
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 shredder , i have to go now and i'll continue with this cave later in the evening. i except to find your full 45 demo when i'm back :)

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2019-10-28 12:55 shredder  
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i'm still struggling with the butterflies, and working on 3x9 :)

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2019-10-28 13:05 nesdori  
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my 42 diamonds run is now open. not sure if there's anything which can help you getting 44+1 but now you can see how i handled the first fly.

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2019-10-28 13:15 shredder  
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thanks! nice!

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2019-10-28 15:33 shredder  
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i did a better run with 92 seconds left. i would call this maneuver (if it's not there yet) the walking vortex :)

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2019-10-28 15:36 shredder  
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from 164\ run.

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2019-10-28 15:59 nicol  
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 nesdori  if You reading it - I n s a n e     s k i l l  ! ! !  
great gameplay !

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2019-10-28 16:07 shredder  
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ok i got the 3x9. :)

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2019-10-28 16:43 shredder  
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trying to push the boulder with luck to block the gwall is killing me :D

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2019-10-28 16:48 nesdori  
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i did also experiment with the initial vortex, i got 97 seconds left when i picked the diamond, now i'm trying finally to get the entire run done

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2019-10-28 16:49 nesdori  
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 nicol , thanks but the insanity is still coming up, i and  shredder  are working on it! :)

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2019-10-28 16:50 shredder  
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i'm trying too! good luck! :)

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2019-10-28 17:05 shredder  
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in my new walking vortex way i got 101 secs after picking the diamond :)

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2019-10-28 17:10 nesdori  
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ok, it would be interesting to see that, my 97sec is just a regular vortex without walking ability :)

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2019-10-28 17:12 shredder  
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ok i will record a demo, one moment :)

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2019-10-28 17:14 shredder  
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demo with 200\

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2019-10-28 18:04 shredder  
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1 frame too late with the boulder :D that hurts :D

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2019-10-28 18:11 nesdori  
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i know the feeling! :) btw, if your timing is correct, both pushes don't have to be fast but one of them can have one frame delay. so the probability is about 1/8.

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2019-10-28 18:28 shredder  
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not bad, with little patience :)

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2019-10-29 00:50 nesdori  
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this cave is a crazy! it's actually possible to get 46 diamonds! i'll try to play a demo tomorrow, now bed time. this cave is just insanely sick; you won't believe your eyes! :)

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2019-10-29 06:26 shredder  
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meanwhile i found a way to get first bonus diamond extremely fast :D

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2019-10-29 06:28 shredder  
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airjump trick - on the ti-wall square. and than use the lightboulder from voodoo square to kill spining ffly and grab the diamond ;)

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2019-10-29 06:31 shredder  
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ok nvm... :D bad idea :D

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2019-10-29 09:26 dustin  
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ok, i hope i'm ready to watch  nesdori 's run... i must be strong now... ;d

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2019-10-29 09:29 dustin  
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great stuff! at least nothing was too ovious, it's a real hiscore cave 4 experts! ;d

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2019-10-29 15:46 shredder  
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even 47\ is possible! i'm going for it! but this damned boulder luck...

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2019-10-29 16:09 shredder  
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i'm too excited and writing too fast... stupid things... i'm practicing in the editor and ofcourse did a mistake... my run is for 45\... sorry for chaos :(

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2019-10-29 17:08 nesdori  
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busy day but my 46 diamonds run coming later today, i already practised yesterday so it shouldn't be that hard once i'm back on my desktop.. :)

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2019-10-29 17:23 shredder  
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i know what do you mean about 46\ :) at least i suspect what is going on ;)

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2019-10-29 17:25 shredder  
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i'm trying it, but i must correct my bf separating :)

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2019-10-29 17:34 nesdori  
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i think your assumption about 46th diamond is correct.. we'll see later :)

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2019-10-29 17:38 shredder  
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ok :) if you make it, please hold demo invisible for a while ;)

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2019-10-29 17:44 nesdori  
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i will :)

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2019-10-29 17:57 shredder  
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thanks! :)

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2019-10-29 18:12 shredder  
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ok, i got the right way with bflies... now it's time to combine all things and do a entire run. :) actually i'm shocked how much this cave offers :O massive amount of tricks can be done here! :)

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2019-10-29 18:14 shredder  
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btw, 46\ solution requires one lucky push less (first g-wall blocking) than my 45\ but working with bflies is harder :) we'll see ;)

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2019-10-29 18:17 nesdori  
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remember not to use too much time; i calculated that about 10 secs will be left after everything is done. and if you have bad luck with the other push requiring luck, those seconds will flow quickly.. :)

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2019-10-29 18:19 nesdori  
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my solution uses two lucky pushs (g-wall and one other), the other lucky push can be repeated n times without failure.. the only thing is each round of trying wastes precious time

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2019-10-29 18:30 shredder  
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yes i know what you mean, second push with killing the bf... yes this thing can stole precious time... :(

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2019-10-29 21:13 nesdori  
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almost got it! i ran out of time because the second push was unlucky :( :)

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2019-10-29 21:44 shredder  
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i did a panic push 1 frame to early and last bf survived :D

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2019-10-29 22:10 nesdori  
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soon we will tame this beast! :)

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2019-10-29 22:14 shredder  
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i'll be back tommorow. now it's time to go to the work :)

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2019-10-29 22:28 nesdori  
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got it! 46 diamonds.. 3 seconds left :)

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2019-10-29 22:42 nesdori  
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this is the most insane cave i have ever played, may be the most insane cave in the history of boulder dash. not just it's difficulty level but also the way how more and more possible diamonds were found after little more thinking. the demo will be free when  shredder  is ready :)

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2019-10-30 06:06 shredder  
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well done  nesdori ! grats! for me this cave is also insane and one of the best i've ever played :)  
  
now my turn! :D

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2019-10-30 07:40 nesdori  
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i might hone my score later, i have an idea how to improve the upper section and also my bf separation is optimized for my previous strategy and is a little slow for this run. generally my running is cautious because there are blinking exits everywhere and they must be avoided to enter too early. i have to attend  Arno 's ballet school to that i feel more comfortable making tight pirouettes :)

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2019-10-30 07:52 shredder  
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IN MY PRACICE RUNS I'M ENDING WITH MORE SECONDS...   
-TOP SECTION: I'M DOING EXCACTLY THE SAME THING AS IN PREVIOUS DEMOS (101 SEC LEFT AFTER PICKING 1ST DIAMOND).   
-BOTTOM SECTION: I GOT NICE BF MANAGEMENT... I'M SATISFIED :) WITH EVERYTHING DONE RIGHT AND LUCK I'M DOING BOTTOM (BEGIN FROM THE LINE WITH HEAVYBOULDERS) IN APROX 49 SECS :)   
  
i'm curious about your top section improvement... sounds great!  
my 101 sec left from the 1st diamond is fastest so far :)

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2019-10-30 08:20 nesdori  
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i used 65 secs from the heavy line to the end. not perfect luck though.

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2019-10-30 08:32 shredder  
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yes, when 1 bf is closed in the place and second is killed asap, then is's 49 sec (with good push), when closing bf failed... then it takes 60+ sec

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2019-10-30 08:34 shredder  
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i mean close second bf and kill third, because first one is killed by second boulder :)

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2019-10-30 08:40 nesdori  
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we have a different strategy :) my flies run freely and i first explode two of them and then enclose the third and then lucky push against it. but there's lots of waiting. now i got inspired to improve my score.. :)

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2019-10-30 08:55 shredder  
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my record is 43 sec for bottom section :D with accidently kicked boulder exactly onto enclosed the bf :)

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2019-10-30 09:09 shredder  
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boulders are against me today! :D

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2019-10-30 09:39 nesdori  
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the first improvement done: now there's 113 secs left after picking the first diamond :)

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2019-10-30 09:43 shredder  
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wow! combined with mine 43-45 sec bottom... :OOOO could be nice :)

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2019-10-30 09:43 shredder  
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but hard... because of luck :(

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2019-10-30 10:00 nesdori  
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i'll try to get sub 40 bottom. i have some ideas.. :)

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2019-10-30 10:08 shredder  
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sounds insane :D

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2019-10-30 10:44 nesdori  
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uhh.. the ending is so easy. i got badly distracted by my previous strategy and made useless things. i think the heavy line to the end takes now 36 secs with perfect luck.

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2019-10-30 10:46 shredder  
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:O

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2019-10-30 11:58 nesdori  
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i already solved this with the new method but i'll try again with better luck.. it took forever to get the last fly :)

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2019-10-30 12:01 nesdori  
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solved again but it took 9 pushes to get the last one.. come on, where's my luck :)

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2019-10-30 12:20 nesdori  
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ok, finally a bit more luck but not yet perfect. a demo saved.  
  
seconds left:  
113 - the first diamond  
89 - the heavy line  
46 - the end  
  
so heavy to the end took 43s

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2019-10-30 17:58 shredder  
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fantastic! i'm curious about your new improvements :).  
i have no boulder push luck yet... this is ridiculous :D  
  
...but keep trying to catch some luck \\\

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2019-10-30 18:12 nesdori  
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keep trying! you have been so close many times. i think our endings are very similar, it sounds like you need more luck with boulders (other than g-wall), maybe you have smaller gap between flies when you trying to enclose one of them. i need some luck there but the success rate is something like 70%

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2019-10-30 18:22 nesdori  
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i can further speed things up by removing "gap-structures" but then i would need more luck. i won't try that kind of ultimate speed run anymore.. already enough tries on this cave :)

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2019-10-30 18:23 shredder  
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worst thing for me is to block the g-wall... so many failures...   
i think amoeba is more clement to me :D  
working with bfs is not so bad, because i've increased the gap between them and i think it's safe. got enough time to prepare myself for second and third kill :)

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2019-10-30 18:45 shredder  
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at last! :) ok, how about revealing demos? :)

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2019-10-30 18:47 nesdori  
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yes, let's do it! my demo free! :)

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2019-10-30 18:53 shredder  
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genious top section  nesdori ! i'm amazed! :)  
  
that cave was realy lot of fun (except this damned gwall blocking ;).

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2019-10-30 18:58 nesdori  
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yes, because my vortex couldn't walk, i decided to lead the flies and walk myself :)

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2019-10-30 19:22 Arno  
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bravo! :-D

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2019-10-30 19:29 shredder  
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brutal patience training ;d

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2019-10-30 19:30 nesdori  
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thanks  Arno ! after many days of struggle, this cave turned out to be quite simple. the journey from the beginning to this point was far from simple though.  
  
the real trolling would have been if this cave had been named "just 46" with 46 required diamonds. nobody would have believed that this is possible and suspected that  dustin  is just trolling :)

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2019-10-30 19:54 shredder  
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after so many attempts, final run is polished to the max :D even the blinking exits everywhere, becomes no big deal ;)

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2019-10-30 20:03 nesdori  
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at first, i respected the blinking walls too much and didn't run like crazy but then got used to it. the only problem with blinking is that after tens of runs when you finally turn head away from the monitor, the walls in the room keep blinking! :) not a suitable cave for epileptics :)

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2019-10-30 20:06 nesdori  
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almost 150 comments; that record will stay for a while.. maybe until "just one! 3" :)

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2019-10-30 20:26 shredder  
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yeah, i'm looking forward for "just one! 3" ;)

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2019-10-30 23:26 krissz  
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The highest comment count was 37.

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2019-10-31 19:16 dustin  
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wow... ;d ;d

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2019-10-31 19:22 dustin  
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congrat for this hiscore,  nesdori , and also  shredder  for getting so many bonus \° that you played this so many times when you needed such pushing luck - big respect! ;d

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2019-11-01 06:30 shredder  
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thanks! :D sometimes i'm very stubborn ;)

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2019-11-01 09:34 nesdori  
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me too. i'm selectively stubborn; in everyday life and in boulder dash :)

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2019-11-01 11:27 dustin  
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i see! ;d all the work with the vortex and so on that you always had to repeat before getting a lucky shot!