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2019-11-05 21:24 Arno  
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 dustin , do you have a solution to this cave without pushing luck? :-)

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2019-11-05 21:44 dustin  
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yes! for crushing the 2-size wall, i know the solution, for the 3-wall, i know that i had one, but this one i have to reprodue in my head ;d in any case, no pushing luck required!

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2019-11-05 22:51 nesdori  
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it would nice to have semi-heavy boulders which are movable but a push never succeeds at first attempt (or first two). these caves would be solvable but lucky solutions are eliminated :)

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2019-11-05 22:54 dustin  
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why this? you could then just start pushing the boulder three frames before you actually want to push it...

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2019-11-05 23:05 nesdori  
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yes sometimes pre-pushing is possible but it would eliminate lucky push sequences involving multiple sequential pushes and things like where you have to first drop/move a boulder and then immediately lucky-push it.. like pushing a boulder over explosions.

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2019-11-05 23:28 dustin  
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yeah, that's true of course!

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2019-11-05 23:33 dustin  
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ok, i reconstructed the 3-size breakthrough.  read on if you want a hint.  
  
for the 3-size wall, i need a 1-fly-exlosion, a 2-fly-double-explosion, another 1-fly explosion and finally a 3-fly triple-explosion. the distance of the fireflies in the 2-fly and 3-fly cages are such that the timing works perfectly for my solution method.

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2019-11-06 07:57 Arno  
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ok i have some ideas now... :-)

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2019-11-06 11:52 dustin  
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overall i need 12 fireflies to solve this cave. i'm curious whether someone needs less ;d

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2019-11-06 13:22 nesdori  
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the first two walls can be done with 2 flies both and according to your explanation, your method uses 7 flies on the 3-wall. that's already 11 flies but i also have an idea for the last wall which uses less flies.

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2019-11-06 14:13 dustin  
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ah, i also see a two-ff solution for the second wall now. the same method would also save 1ff at the 3rd wall.

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2019-11-06 14:30 dustin  
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the last two days my keyboard didn't like me and i thought i couldn't record a run, but today it likes me again ;d

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2019-11-07 09:11 Arno  
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 dustin / nesdori : your 2-ff solution for the second wall, is this without pushing luck? i only see a way by pushing a boulder over explosion....

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2019-11-07 09:18 nesdori  
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yes, no luck involved. i'm working on a full cave solution with only 7 flies (only one fly / a layer of wall). and no luck required.. :)  
demo soon! :)

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2019-11-07 10:10 nesdori  
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 Arno , it's a bit difficult to give a verbal hint for 2-fly 2-wall but i'll try: a rounded object is needed but the problem is that the rounded objects itself falls and is no more a good platform for the next falling thing. and if there's supporting objects then there's not enough room for a fly.. but wait - what if the supporting thing is the fly itself? :)

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2019-11-07 11:19 nesdori  
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my solution is a successful 7-fly method (2+2+3). it almost looks like that the designer of the cave have had this solution in mind :) the reason behind that will be revealed when my demo is visible.  
  
i'll keep the demo hidden for a while because i think some players want to still try this.

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2019-11-07 11:42 nesdori  
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a clarification: 7 flies for the entire cave, not for the 3-wall :)

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2019-11-07 13:38 shredder  
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i understand your'e 2+2+3 strategy :) got it in the editor, i'll try to do entire run :)

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2019-11-07 13:39 shredder  
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your *

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2019-11-07 14:23 nesdori  
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 shredder : ok, great! :) interesting to see if your strategy is exactly the same as mine or something different.. :)

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2019-11-07 14:28 shredder  
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yes :) i'm curious too, we'll see :)

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2019-11-07 15:45 shredder  
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ok i got 7 ff solution :)

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2019-11-07 15:57 nesdori  
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 shredder , do you need all 4 diamonds? i do, my method won't work with 3 or less :)

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2019-11-07 16:04 shredder  
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in my run i've used 3 diamonds in the mid-section :)

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2019-11-07 16:05 shredder  
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in the last section with 3 walls, i've used only boulders. but waste some time to eliminate excess of fireflies :) play safe ;)

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2019-11-07 16:11 nesdori  
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only boulders?! wow! then we have totally different solutions. yes, getting rid of excess flies was the most time consuming part :D

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2019-11-07 16:13 nesdori  
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i didn't want to explode any excess fly because it would have not been a 7-fly solution anymore :)

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2019-11-07 16:18 shredder  
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oh ok :) i've killed more fflies but use 7 to break through the walls ;)

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2019-11-07 16:35 nesdori  
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 shredder , i think i know your solution. i just tried my "old" diamond-solution and didn't realize there was a boulder-only solution too :)

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2019-11-07 16:38 nesdori  
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my 2-walls are boulder-only. i wonder why you did use diamonds there but not on the 3-wall?-)

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2019-11-07 17:07 dustin  
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wow, all this sounds very interesting! ;d

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2019-11-07 17:16 dustin  
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i tried a bit in the editor too now - i see how your 7-ff solutions could be made! very nice! curious to see the demos! ;d

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2019-11-07 18:03 shredder  
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i've corrected my run, now it's true 7ff solution ;) how about revealing demos? :)

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2019-11-07 18:28 shredder  
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ok, nvm, i've overlooked that the  Arno  is approaching to this cave too

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2019-11-07 18:40 Arno  
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tonight is reserved for a different cave for me! but i'm watching this cave with great interest and i'd love to see some solutions! :-)

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2019-11-07 18:42 shredder  
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i think i know which cave you want to kill  Arno  :) good luck!  
  
ok i'll show my demo after  nesdori  and  dustin . they was first with solving ;)

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2019-11-07 19:33 nesdori  
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ok then, my demo free :)

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2019-11-07 19:41 shredder  
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and my demo too ;)

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2019-11-07 19:42 shredder  
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3-wall execution totally different :)

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2019-11-07 20:28 nesdori  
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yes, when you told that you use no diamonds i knew that they are very different :) your solution requires some luck because if the last push is too slow, the fly moves up and the structure collapses, but still it's very nice solution. i had a little different boulder-only solution in my mind which doesn't require luck but i haven't yet checked if it's possible at all. it's just an extension from 2-wall method using the same principle.

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2019-11-07 20:31 shredder  
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thats true, few times i got the problems with the last push :)

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2019-11-07 20:57 Arno  
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fantastic runs guys! :-)  
  
 dustin : i guess your run is the intended solution where you "timed" the 3 fireflies in their pit for the last triple explosion? i'm curious to see that way too! :-D

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2019-11-07 22:16 dustin  
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 nesdori ,  shredder  - great runs! when i read your previous comments i was already thinking that you'd actually destroy diamonds, but how foolish could i be? you're hiscore runners, after all! ;d  
  
 Arno  - my run free! there you can see that for my solution, the 2-fly and 3-fly cages are timed perfectly! for  nesdori 's and  shredder 's solution, however, the multile-fly cages are rather a hindrance! funny ;d  
  
the first wall was actually meant to be a "tutorial" to teach the player how it works. at the second wall, the player could then realie that if he starts with a single explosion, he can put two boulders such that he gets the same situation as with the tutorial wall. for the last 3-sie wall, which has to be blasted only on l5, the player is on his own!

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2019-11-07 22:37 dustin  
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cave name "overseized obstacle" btw ;d

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2019-11-07 22:58 shredder  
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thx guys! :)  dustin  your run is also cool :) realy nice to watch. :)

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2019-11-08 00:05 shredder  
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your run reminds me the bd viii cave o challenge :)

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2019-11-08 01:39 dustin  
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oh yes, your run there is very similar - 3 explosions in a row work from alone! ;d

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2019-11-08 01:40 shredder  
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yeah very cool cave too :)

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2019-11-08 01:42 shredder  
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i'm laughing now, because i remember when i was playing bd as a kid, this cave was very difficult to me ;D

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2019-11-08 08:21 nesdori  
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 dustin , nice technique to blast the 3-wall. thanks for the tutorial! :)