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2021-11-13 15:44 chris neilson  
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no score

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2021-11-13 16:42 DarkStoorM  
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To solve the cave you can't waste any frames :)

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2021-11-13 16:48 nesdori  
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an additional challenge would be to solve this by just running without any snaps, i don't know if it's possible :)

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2021-11-13 17:09 nesdori  
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hmm.. it would be possible to solve this just by running in 29 frames but 28 is tough :)

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2021-11-13 17:44 DarkStoorM  
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Wait, did I make a mistake while calculating the amount of frames? :O

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2021-11-13 17:48 nesdori  
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 darkstoorm , i don't think so? it takes 28 frames to pick up all \:s and go to exit. and 29 is not enough to solve this.

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2021-11-13 18:11 DarkStoorM  
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Oh I see, misunderstood :D

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2021-11-13 18:31 chris neilson  
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Still no score. try cave: 1 score time limited.

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2021-11-14 12:43 darkwood  
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VERY LAME QUESTION :-)  
HOW YOU COUNT THE FRAMES? IT'S 7.0 PER/SECOND for that cave?

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2021-11-14 15:39 nesdori  
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 darkwood , that's a very cool question! :)  
  
when all cave objects are scanned once and their interactions are checked and possible movements/growths are done is one single frame. so for example rockford and flies move one step / frame.  
because there are 27\ on this cave it optimally takes 27 frames to collect them all and one frame to move to the exit. that's why it takes 28 frames to solve this cave perfectly.  darkstoorm  has set the fps, the \ values and time penalty values in such a way that if it takes more than 28 frames to solve this, you get 0 points and therefore the solution is disregarded. so to actually solve this cave with more than zero points, you have to on each turn (on each frame) catch a \ either by moving or by snapping it by pushing. if you make one single mistake and move rockford to empty space you can as well restart immediately because you can't anymore get points by completing the cave.  
  
this concept can be constructed also with other fps values; it always takes 28 frames to solve this with any fps (the movement is just faster) but because the score is time based, the values for \:s and time penalty must be adjusted for each fps value separately in such a way that only a perfect run is accepted.

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2021-11-15 12:20 dustin  
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another possibility (maybe simpler) would be to put a ffly and voodoo somewhere such that the fly explodes after a certain number of frames. this number is:  
  
frames until the fly explodes = inbox delay + 5 + frames you want for the cave  
  
(after hatching, ^ is immobile for 5 more frames.)  
  
in this case: 1+6+28=35 frames, so the ffly must explode in the 35th frame after the start!

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2021-11-15 13:59 DarkStoorM  
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Ah yes  dustin , the fly timer :D  
  
I also thought about just setting the cave time to [x]-seconds and adjust the amount  of "required frames", but a ticking clock is too distracting  
  
but! The score manipulation might be a better solution for compact caves :D  
  
And  nesdori  with a great explanation, again! :D

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2021-11-15 16:50 DarkStoorM  
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OK, time to reveal the solution. :D  
  
Not sure how many solutions are possible, but mine is based on a technique I often use on big diamond stacks, moving Rockford in circles in a 5x3 area, left and right (only one cycle was used), which allows collecting a stack from the bottom WITHOUT getting crushed or having to wait for "stationary" state.  
  
There is a very compact version of this movement, but I liked this one  more in this cave, maybe in the next version, soon :D

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2021-11-15 18:18 nesdori  
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 darkstoorm , our solutions are surprisingly similar although there must be lots of different solutions :)

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2021-11-15 21:41 darkwood  
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 nesdori , thanks for your explanation!  
things is much clear now. ^