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2021-01-05 19:19 nesdori  
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butterfly's chamber has been reinforced and the corners don't look funny anymore. but now rockford must turn wrong to right?! :O :)

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2021-01-05 20:33 dustin  
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oh! so there is a different solution!?  
  
the first thing i did was to check whether i could discover any hidden growing or magic walls, but without success :D

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2021-01-05 20:45 nesdori  
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 dustin , no trolling here. the task really is to turn wrong to right :)

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2021-01-05 22:12 dustin  
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so there must be a way to crush the firefly when it is to the inbox's left side... i had tried this a lot before releasing the cave, and i could do so only at the cost of a \. i wanted to have this idea close but not working. but from all your beloved cryptic hints, i conclude that there is indeed a way ;)  
  
there was another idea that failed closely: killing the top-right ff when it contacts the slime from left or right, and hope that the heavy boulder will then kill the other ff with different timing, destroying the brick wall and releasing the bf. i checked this only in my head and concluded that for cso reasons, the ff will always move before the heavy boulder crushes it, so the brick wall cannot be destroyed that way. now i actually tested it and indeed the firefly always moves.  
  
so far i don't have any fresh new ideas. i'm really curious to see how it works!

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2021-01-05 22:35 shredder  
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i just want to see the run :) i have no idea what's goin' on :D

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2021-01-05 22:41 nesdori  
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there indeed is an alternative solution and there are no hidden secrets in this cave. works with the original as well. i overlooked this solution because i saw the intended right away.  
  
i'm not sure if anyone still wants to try this because everyone already spent time trying to find solutions with the original cave. but let's see if someone is stubborn enough. i'll give an actual hint later :)

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2021-01-05 23:54 DarkStoorM  
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Interesting, I thought you just have to roll the left boulder, but the diamond is consumed by the explosion. I guess I give up :D

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2021-01-06 02:05 chris neilson  
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other cave

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2021-01-06 15:31 shredder  
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 nesdori , hold on with the hints please. i think i'm on the right way. but this is a little bit insane :)

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2021-01-06 17:09 nesdori  
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 shredder , ok. no hints yet but this comment might be a little one. your possible solution sounds interesting. i wouldn't call my solution insane but it's rather simple. if you find a crazy solution don't show it yet. if it's different than mine maybe you can do another remix :D

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2021-01-06 17:59 dustin  
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if  nesdori  has a solution he calls simple, and  shredder  has one he calls insane, these needn't necessarily be different :D

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2021-01-06 20:01 shredder  
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ok, i've tried my new idea in the ckit. it sux.   
i thought that i see the light in the end of the tunnel...   
but it's just a freight train coming my way ;D

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2021-01-06 20:15 nesdori  
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 shredder : damn! i was looking forward to see your insanity.. :)  
  
i guess it's time for a hint:  
  
the heavy boulder and the ffly below it has nothing to do with freeing the bfly. and also the right side boulder and diamond are not needed.  
  
so to free the bfly only a light boulder, a diamond and the upper ffly are needed. is this perhaps the most difficult puzzle with just three dynamic objects? :)

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2021-01-06 20:55 DarkStoorM  
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Not sure if I was close, I suspected it had something to do with the left boulder and a diamond, but it's either too hard or... so simple that I already missed it a few times :D

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2021-01-06 21:21 shredder  
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omg... realy simple indeed. :O

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2021-01-06 21:23 nesdori  
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 shredder , :D

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2021-01-06 21:32 DarkStoorM  
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ALright, I give up :D

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2021-01-06 21:33 shredder  
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just facepalm. i can't believe how could i miss this one :D   
i would say, it's a nasty fsc for original cave ;D

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2021-01-06 21:34 shredder  
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 darkstoorm , just use 3 dynamic obiects and everything will be fine ;)

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2021-01-06 21:52 nesdori  
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 shredder , no reason to facepalm because everyone missed this. i didn't check this thoroughly until  dustin  commented that this is a wrong way. so i thought: hmm.. is it really a wrong way, let's see.. :)

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2021-01-06 22:22 shredder  
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and this is phenomenon of this cave. simple solution, but siprisingly easy to miss.

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2021-01-06 22:50 nesdori  
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the final hint: the standard way of breaking the chamber fails because rockford can't snap the \ and misses it by just one frame. so the boulder must be delayed by at least one frame. but with what? ffly or \? choose carefully :)

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2021-01-06 22:52 shredder  
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:D

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2021-01-06 23:05 shredder  
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imo it's even easier than intended solution. few moves less needed :)

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2021-01-06 23:11 DarkStoorM  
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That must be some trick I don't know yet, I can't figure it out :D

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2021-01-06 23:17 shredder  
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"dynamic" is the key :)

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2021-01-06 23:23 shredder  
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this cave is decisively brilliant :)

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2021-01-06 23:26 nesdori  
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 darkstoorm , isn't it a pity that objects on the top of stack needs to wait for objects below to fall first.. i really hate waiting for them to fall, takes my precious time.. ;)

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2021-01-06 23:33 shredder  
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i'm watching for the approaching firefly like a tiger for his victim ;D

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2021-01-07 00:54 dustin  
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ah alright, that's what i just didn't take into account. the ffly must somehow be made to block the boulder for at least one frame. indeed a surprisingly simple idea. even in this cave, i checked it only shortly and superficially and rejected it quickly... very nice finding,  nesdori !  
  
well that's the natural difficulty if you want to make a trap which almost works. you must be very careful or it actually does work! :D  
  
but actually i do still like the original cave. two independant solutions, none of them trivial! :D

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2021-01-07 00:59 shredder  
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 dustin , firefly only arrives :)

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2021-01-07 01:02 nesdori  
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 dustin , you were not careful! :D

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2021-01-07 02:54 dustin  
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!  
i should not have read this before going to bed. now i have to solve this first! :D

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2021-01-07 03:17 dustin  
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got it! that's indeed a very nice new cso trick! much more cso-ish than the intended original solution :D   
  
this one has to be taken for the cso series! i'll build a new cso cave that breaks it down to the heart of the puzzle, and then... good night! :D

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2021-01-07 09:30 dustin  
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 nesdori , i hope you don't mind that i immediately made a new cso cave before the solution was revealed. that was quite a euphoric moment! :D now, with enough sleep, the implementation of the solution isn't even too hard. and i've got a new cave idea as well :D  
  
i truly admire your puzzle-solving skills. i think i'm not too bad at making puzzles, but solving other people's puzzles is still something else. in the first case, you have a rough idea and see what you can do with it, and in the other case, you're confronted with a finished result and have to read the creator's mind. but you always go even one step further - you look at the caves from a more unprejudiced point of view and you try to figure out all the possibilities the cave offers, no matter if intended by the puzzlemaker or not. you dig deeply into every possibility without knowing whether it works or not. i often lack this patience and enthusiasm, that's probably why i admire this that much! :D

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2021-01-07 15:15 shredder  
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how about revealing demos? :)

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2021-01-07 15:36 dustin  
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mine is free! :)

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2021-01-07 15:58 shredder  
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mine too :)

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2021-01-07 18:47 DarkStoorM  
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Oh my God, I thought you have to do some delaying magic with firefly, but it's the diamond that has to delay the boulder... nice!

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2021-01-07 19:52 DarkStoorM  
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and oh, now I understand  nesdori 's hint! :D

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2021-01-07 20:47 nesdori  
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 dustin , perfectly ok that you did a new cave demonstrating this. it's your cave :) i was actually also considering to do variation of this puzzle as a hint instead of other hints.  
  
thanks for the compliments but it's the experience of solving the previous caves of your great cso-series which helps to solve future cso caves :) and yes, it's very much fun first trying to figure out the intended solution and then trying to find out what the author possibly missed :)

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2021-01-07 21:42 dustin  
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 darkstoorm , hints which are understood only after the solution is revealed might have missed their original determination... but it's fun anyway! :D  
  
 nesdori  - thanks for the counter-compliments :) indeed, i sometimes think "man, why have i already made a cave with this cso effect, now i have an idea to integrate it into a bigger puzzle, but this puzzle now becomes easier and less striking because the cso effect has already been shown before..." but on the other hand, it's also great fun to discover the cso universe step by step and together with you solvers! :D