> I think there IS something wrong in the network code.
Oh well... This is completely untested -- I will check this.
Which kind of game engine did the levels use which you used with network mode? Only EM (those from the test sets), R'n'D, or both? (Hint: Open a level from a set in the editor and choose "INFO".)
> What about a little indicator, what view mode is active? Like 1, 2, 3, 4,
> Sigma (for all) or better little players in yellow, red, green, blue and the
> Sigma sign ?
Yes, this would be useful. I'll see if I can add this without too many changes, but maybe it won't come with 3.2.0 (but 3.2.1 etc.)...
> In the all players view mode you could display the sum of all dynamites
> and maybe of all keys too, because that's the stuff, that the whole team
> owns.
That's exactly how I've solved it now (after reading your first post in this thread)! Will be in 3.2.0 that way! :-)
> An alternative could be a 4x4 table for the keys, but I think there isn't
> enough space ...
Especially as the original EM/EMC engine only supported two players, so there are virtually no EM/EMC levels with three or four players out there...
> Btw: What about an additional indicator for the vertical EMC style keys
> (purple, blue, brown, grey)?
Another thing that's still missing... :-o
> I would definitely prefer a key control ...
So "Esc" and "Enter" should work fine for you (for all but the network player choice menues).
> Btw: About the setup menu, how do you think about moving to the last
> choice, if you're at the top and press 'up'? I'm so lazy ... Rolling Eyes
At least you can also use "Esc" here to move one level up...
pre-release 3.2.0-7
Moderators: Flumminator, Zomis
> Good luck for bug hunting!
Thanks! ;-)
> You could also have a short look at the "view all players" mode, I think the
> screen position isn't correct, especially when a player moves ...
This was indeed very tricky, and I had to change and tweak it a lot. Though it would work now... :-/
I assume you use the "delayed scrolling: on" setting (see setup menu), right?
(This is also the default setting if you haven't changed anything.)
With delayed scrolling disabled, all should be fine, but of course it should also work with delayed scrolling enabled. Do you have a tape available that causes such screen position problems?
BTW: I think that tapes while using network mode are currently broken due to a little bug that wasn't fixed before 3.2.0-7. Do you have these screen position problems only with network multi-player mode, or also with local multi-player mode? In the last case, you could record such a tape and it should show what happens. (Or do tapes recorded in network mode work for you?)
Thanks! ;-)
> You could also have a short look at the "view all players" mode, I think the
> screen position isn't correct, especially when a player moves ...
This was indeed very tricky, and I had to change and tweak it a lot. Though it would work now... :-/
I assume you use the "delayed scrolling: on" setting (see setup menu), right?
(This is also the default setting if you haven't changed anything.)
With delayed scrolling disabled, all should be fine, but of course it should also work with delayed scrolling enabled. Do you have a tape available that causes such screen position problems?
BTW: I think that tapes while using network mode are currently broken due to a little bug that wasn't fixed before 3.2.0-7. Do you have these screen position problems only with network multi-player mode, or also with local multi-player mode? In the last case, you could record such a tape and it should show what happens. (Or do tapes recorded in network mode work for you?)
About the strange crashes:
It crashes only with EM engine levels, RnD engine levels work well in 3.2.0rc7 in network mode.
About the scrolling:
Delayed scrolling was enabled.
I tried to repeat the strange behaviour in local multiplayer mode, but I failed. It seems to work well there.
One discovery:
When I select viewall (F9) in local multiplayer, the player can't move away more than a screen width, so that both players still fit in one screen.
In network multiplayer, the player doesn't get blocked, he can move more than a screen width away ...
Tape recording does not work in network mode for me.
It crashes only with EM engine levels, RnD engine levels work well in 3.2.0rc7 in network mode.
About the scrolling:
Delayed scrolling was enabled.
I tried to repeat the strange behaviour in local multiplayer mode, but I failed. It seems to work well there.
One discovery:
When I select viewall (F9) in local multiplayer, the player can't move away more than a screen width, so that both players still fit in one screen.
In network multiplayer, the player doesn't get blocked, he can move more than a screen width away ...
Tape recording does not work in network mode for me.
Hi Holger, good to see that 3.2.0-7 is out now, there's some things about it that I've waited for a long time...
The thing I've been waiting for is that "ce value element", but I have one little suggestion about it: I wasn't expecting a "ce value for TRIGGER element", I was expecting "ce value for CURRENT CE element". That little addition would be nice (so I'm not suggesting to delete the old, only insert a new one!)
Because the "ce value for trigger element" causes some problems for me with the ideas I had... what if a CE should create a specific ce-value-element (stored as CE value in the CE) when touching a wall? Since the wall can't have a CE value, the CE value gets 0 and the CE outputs empty space!! *aargh*
The thing I've been waiting for is that "ce value element", but I have one little suggestion about it: I wasn't expecting a "ce value for TRIGGER element", I was expecting "ce value for CURRENT CE element". That little addition would be nice (so I'm not suggesting to delete the old, only insert a new one!)
Because the "ce value for trigger element" causes some problems for me with the ideas I had... what if a CE should create a specific ce-value-element (stored as CE value in the CE) when touching a wall? Since the wall can't have a CE value, the CE value gets 0 and the CE outputs empty space!! *aargh*
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Rockford4ever
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:41 pm
- Location: Belgium
Sweet - v3.2.0rc7! 
A thing I noticed which needs to be in the next version: when a rock falls on a spring in the EM engine, the spring starts moving, but in R'n'D it does'nt. This is used in a level of the EMC, I can't remember which one though.
I really like the graphics; I've been waiting for them for a long time now... I think I'm going to create a 100 of levels to test everything right now
A thing I noticed which needs to be in the next version: when a rock falls on a spring in the EM engine, the spring starts moving, but in R'n'D it does'nt. This is used in a level of the EMC, I can't remember which one though.
I really like the graphics; I've been waiting for them for a long time now... I think I'm going to create a 100 of levels to test everything right now
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HerzAusGold
- Posts: 362
- Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 4:41 pm
- Location: Germany
Great Work.
But it would be nicer if the user can choose the "gfX"
like in the "amiga cd32 emerald mine from almathrea".
And a switch between AGA and EGS graphics will be nice!
Ah, of course I dont want to play the levels in each graphics mode (but I think/hope this is only for demostration in this prerelease).
A little bug: Player only touch the exit and dont run into.
-diffycult to explain-
And the sand in "Emerald Mine" looks ugly during digging (there are some pixels switch/go/blinking blank) - this i never notice on a amiga.
But it would be nicer if the user can choose the "gfX"
like in the "amiga cd32 emerald mine from almathrea".
And a switch between AGA and EGS graphics will be nice!
Ah, of course I dont want to play the levels in each graphics mode (but I think/hope this is only for demostration in this prerelease).
A little bug: Player only touch the exit and dont run into.
-diffycult to explain-
And the sand in "Emerald Mine" looks ugly during digging (there are some pixels switch/go/blinking blank) - this i never notice on a amiga.
And the answer is ... 42 !
Jannik:
> It crashes only with EM engine levels, RnD engine levels work well in
> 3.2.0rc7 in network mode.
OK, I was able to at least reproduce this bug. It's not found or fixed yet, though... :-/
> Delayed scrolling was enabled.
> I tried to repeat the strange behaviour in local multiplayer mode, but I
> failed. It seems to work well there.
OK, these are also my own observations.
> When I select viewall (F9) in local multiplayer, the player can't move away
> more than a screen width, so that both players still fit in one screen.
Yep, that's how it should be (and how it was done in the original EM game; to get the exact EM game behaviour, you would have to disable delayed scrolling, btw.).
> In network multiplayer, the player doesn't get blocked, he can move more
> than a screen width away ...
Nasty bug -- network multi-player mode should not have a "focus to all players" mode, because it does not make any sense at all. I'll have to fix this.
> Tape recording does not work in network mode for me.
Yep, right -- this is a know bug that also should be fixed in 3.2.0.
Zomis:
> I have one little suggestion about it: I wasn't expecting a "ce value for
> TRIGGER element", I was expecting "ce value for CURRENT CE element".
Hmmm... Why not just selecting "CE value" from the selectbox then? This is the "ce value of the current element", and therefore should be exactly what you want, if I understood you right. Or do you think about something different here?
Rockford4ever:
> A thing I noticed which needs to be in the next version: when a rock falls
> on a spring in the EM engine, the spring starts moving, but in R'n'D it
> does'nt.
Yep, there are quite some little differences in the two engines -- this is one of them. (Springs also do not kill robots in the R'n'D engine, for example!)
If you really need this specific behaviour, it's probably best to either directly use the EMC engine, or rebuild that kind of spring using CEs! :-)
> I really like the graphics; I've been waiting for them for a long time now...
Glad to hear this! :-)
The new EMC collection will use the original graphics for nearly all sets! :-)
(And there are quite a lot of different graphics sets!)
> I think I'm going to create a 100 of levels to test everything right now
Yeah, do that! :-)
If you try to mix the EMC and R'n'D graphics sets with using the EMC and R'n'D game engine (and vice versa), you could tell if both combinations work together (although there are some limitations when using the graphics of one game type with the game engine of the other type...).
HerzAusGold:
> Great Work.
Thanks! :-)
It was indeed a lot of work... :-o
> But it would be nicer if the user can choose the "gfX"
> like in the "amiga cd32 emerald mine from almathrea".
> And a switch between AGA and EGS graphics will be nice!
Just select the graphics (and sounds) set you like, and choose "override level graphics/sounds" in the setup menu to do this! :-)
(Of course you will then play BD2K3 etc. with these graphics, but I think there is no easy solution for this, as R'n'D knows nothing about "EMC sets" itself...)
> Ah, of course I dont want to play the levels in each graphics mode (but I
> think/hope this is only for demostration in this prerelease).
The new EMC collection will all use their original graphics, for maximum nostalgia! :-)
If you prefer the R'n'D graphics for playing these sets instead, just configure them in the setup menu as described.
Probably it would be good to not display *all* those graphics sets in the "custom artwork" setup menu, but only a few... But then, I don't know which sets people like and which not.
In any case, there will also be the ECS and AGA graphics to choose from, as some sets use the ECS set and some use the AGA set!
> A little bug: Player only touch the exit and dont run into.
Oops... Right! :-o
This should be fixed, too.
> And the sand in "Emerald Mine" looks ugly during digging (there are
> some pixels switch/go/blinking blank) - this i never notice on a amiga.
Yep, I know exactly what you mean -- this is indeed the exact behaviour of the original EM game, but was never used in all those EMC sets (which use a slightly different engine). In fact, the engine I use did not have this, and I had to re-implement it. (It mainly shows up when digging single fields of sand, and indeed looks a bit strange...)
The EMC engine does not use any "crumbled" sand graphics at all, that's why this effect was never noticeable there...
> It crashes only with EM engine levels, RnD engine levels work well in
> 3.2.0rc7 in network mode.
OK, I was able to at least reproduce this bug. It's not found or fixed yet, though... :-/
> Delayed scrolling was enabled.
> I tried to repeat the strange behaviour in local multiplayer mode, but I
> failed. It seems to work well there.
OK, these are also my own observations.
> When I select viewall (F9) in local multiplayer, the player can't move away
> more than a screen width, so that both players still fit in one screen.
Yep, that's how it should be (and how it was done in the original EM game; to get the exact EM game behaviour, you would have to disable delayed scrolling, btw.).
> In network multiplayer, the player doesn't get blocked, he can move more
> than a screen width away ...
Nasty bug -- network multi-player mode should not have a "focus to all players" mode, because it does not make any sense at all. I'll have to fix this.
> Tape recording does not work in network mode for me.
Yep, right -- this is a know bug that also should be fixed in 3.2.0.
Zomis:
> I have one little suggestion about it: I wasn't expecting a "ce value for
> TRIGGER element", I was expecting "ce value for CURRENT CE element".
Hmmm... Why not just selecting "CE value" from the selectbox then? This is the "ce value of the current element", and therefore should be exactly what you want, if I understood you right. Or do you think about something different here?
Rockford4ever:
> A thing I noticed which needs to be in the next version: when a rock falls
> on a spring in the EM engine, the spring starts moving, but in R'n'D it
> does'nt.
Yep, there are quite some little differences in the two engines -- this is one of them. (Springs also do not kill robots in the R'n'D engine, for example!)
If you really need this specific behaviour, it's probably best to either directly use the EMC engine, or rebuild that kind of spring using CEs! :-)
> I really like the graphics; I've been waiting for them for a long time now...
Glad to hear this! :-)
The new EMC collection will use the original graphics for nearly all sets! :-)
(And there are quite a lot of different graphics sets!)
> I think I'm going to create a 100 of levels to test everything right now
Yeah, do that! :-)
If you try to mix the EMC and R'n'D graphics sets with using the EMC and R'n'D game engine (and vice versa), you could tell if both combinations work together (although there are some limitations when using the graphics of one game type with the game engine of the other type...).
HerzAusGold:
> Great Work.
Thanks! :-)
It was indeed a lot of work... :-o
> But it would be nicer if the user can choose the "gfX"
> like in the "amiga cd32 emerald mine from almathrea".
> And a switch between AGA and EGS graphics will be nice!
Just select the graphics (and sounds) set you like, and choose "override level graphics/sounds" in the setup menu to do this! :-)
(Of course you will then play BD2K3 etc. with these graphics, but I think there is no easy solution for this, as R'n'D knows nothing about "EMC sets" itself...)
> Ah, of course I dont want to play the levels in each graphics mode (but I
> think/hope this is only for demostration in this prerelease).
The new EMC collection will all use their original graphics, for maximum nostalgia! :-)
If you prefer the R'n'D graphics for playing these sets instead, just configure them in the setup menu as described.
Probably it would be good to not display *all* those graphics sets in the "custom artwork" setup menu, but only a few... But then, I don't know which sets people like and which not.
In any case, there will also be the ECS and AGA graphics to choose from, as some sets use the ECS set and some use the AGA set!
> A little bug: Player only touch the exit and dont run into.
Oops... Right! :-o
This should be fixed, too.
> And the sand in "Emerald Mine" looks ugly during digging (there are
> some pixels switch/go/blinking blank) - this i never notice on a amiga.
Yep, I know exactly what you mean -- this is indeed the exact behaviour of the original EM game, but was never used in all those EMC sets (which use a slightly different engine). In fact, the engine I use did not have this, and I had to re-implement it. (It mainly shows up when digging single fields of sand, and indeed looks a bit strange...)
The EMC engine does not use any "crumbled" sand graphics at all, that's why this effect was never noticeable there...
Try playing the classic boulderdash 2 levels, the player for some odd reason moves at fast speed by default
The bug with dropping dynamite then moving the second before it explodes when the player has a custom explosion is still there, however the custom graphics being displayed on the explosion have been fixed.
The bug with dropping dynamite then moving the second before it explodes when the player has a custom explosion is still there, however the custom graphics being displayed on the explosion have been fixed.
There's no selectbox in the change target... give me an element named "Selectbox" and I can select "CE value" in that selectboxHolger wrote:Zomis:
> I have one little suggestion about it: I wasn't expecting a "ce value for
> TRIGGER element", I was expecting "ce value for CURRENT CE element".
Hmmm... Why not just selecting "CE value" from the selectbox then? This is the "ce value of the current element", and therefore should be exactly what you want, if I understood you right. Or do you think about something different here?
I'm talking about making an element from the ce value of the current element, not using the ce value for something else...Check out this level: http://www.zomis.net/rnd/download.php?id=476
"CE Value of element triggering change" is the name of the element, and yes... that is how it works... if CE1 touches a wall, then the ce value for the wall (which always gives us zero) is considered, if CE1 touches CE2, then the CE value for CE 2 is used... so then HOW should I do to use the CE value for CE1!? Is it enough to use a delay change instead? Oooh no! It's not that easy... when using a delay change, there is NO element triggering change! (And yes! That is how it should be I think!) The problem is that there is no "CE value of CURRENT CUSTOM ELEMENT" element!
I hope this makes it clear, and I really do hope that you'll see that the only logical thing to do here is to ADD an element named "CE value of current custom element" which is used exactly how it sounds... it uses CE1's ce value and not the ce value of CE2 when CE1 is changing somehow...
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Rockford4ever
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:41 pm
- Location: Belgium
A HORRIBLE Bug is found by me:
When you get a blue key in the EMC Mine 3 Graphics, the Statusbar says that you got a green key because of the change in graphics that in the EM doors graphics, the doors are red, yellow, blue and green, but the R'n'D keys and doors have blue and green switched. This should be changed, since this get confusing.
When you get a blue key in the EMC Mine 3 Graphics, the Statusbar says that you got a green key because of the change in graphics that in the EM doors graphics, the doors are red, yellow, blue and green, but the R'n'D keys and doors have blue and green switched. This should be changed, since this get confusing.
It's great to see this new version, Holger! Very good!
My remarks so far:
- I hear the normal background music playing in the levelsets
using the EM engine. What was it like on the Amiga? Did these levels
have background music? Or did they only have sounds? In that case, it would
be better if you turned off the sound in those levelsets (and that the player
can still override the 'silent' music by the standard music for example).
And then it should also be better if the info screen music in the main menu was turned off as well. And the highscore music.
- In all the four levelsets (gfx as well as non-gfx versions), the following happens:
if you save the game and then load it, you start in multiplayer mode. The second player appears. And if you saved it beyond the field of vision of the second player, you don't see yourself anymore!
- The yam yam animation in level 3 (actually 4, as it starts from 0) of the Emerald Mine (GFX) levelset is wrong. Compare it with the yam yam animation in E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) and you will see that in Emerald Mine (GFX), you don't see the moving tongue, but something red in its black mouth during the animation. It seems that the first
image of the animation is shown on a certain frame in the animation, where officially another image (namely, of a moving tongue)
belongs.
- You don't hear the sound of an opening exit in the levels using the EM engine nor in the levels using the RnD engine. Is this original behaviour?
- The levelset E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) doesn't have a screaming Rockford sound when the player dies. Is that the authors' intention or is it a bug?
- the levels in the non-GFX version of Emerald Mine use grass, but the GFX version uses sand!
- the keys in the side panel in the versions with the old graphics (the sets using the EM engine) look like the standard RnD keys instead of the
Emerald Mine keys. Maybe giving these a bit an older look in these levels?
And of course, you need an expansion of the key display, as there are still four more keys.
- Level 9 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) has the standard graphic for the quicksand with a rock in the level editor, but in the level they are shown as yellow empty quicksand! Doesn't the quicksand with a rock have to use this yellow graphic in the editor as well?
My remarks so far:
- I hear the normal background music playing in the levelsets
using the EM engine. What was it like on the Amiga? Did these levels
have background music? Or did they only have sounds? In that case, it would
be better if you turned off the sound in those levelsets (and that the player
can still override the 'silent' music by the standard music for example).
And then it should also be better if the info screen music in the main menu was turned off as well. And the highscore music.
- In all the four levelsets (gfx as well as non-gfx versions), the following happens:
if you save the game and then load it, you start in multiplayer mode. The second player appears. And if you saved it beyond the field of vision of the second player, you don't see yourself anymore!
- The yam yam animation in level 3 (actually 4, as it starts from 0) of the Emerald Mine (GFX) levelset is wrong. Compare it with the yam yam animation in E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) and you will see that in Emerald Mine (GFX), you don't see the moving tongue, but something red in its black mouth during the animation. It seems that the first
image of the animation is shown on a certain frame in the animation, where officially another image (namely, of a moving tongue)
belongs.
- You don't hear the sound of an opening exit in the levels using the EM engine nor in the levels using the RnD engine. Is this original behaviour?
- The levelset E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) doesn't have a screaming Rockford sound when the player dies. Is that the authors' intention or is it a bug?
- the levels in the non-GFX version of Emerald Mine use grass, but the GFX version uses sand!
- the keys in the side panel in the versions with the old graphics (the sets using the EM engine) look like the standard RnD keys instead of the
Emerald Mine keys. Maybe giving these a bit an older look in these levels?
And of course, you need an expansion of the key display, as there are still four more keys.
- Level 9 of E.M.C. Mine 3 (GFX) has the standard graphic for the quicksand with a rock in the level editor, but in the level they are shown as yellow empty quicksand! Doesn't the quicksand with a rock have to use this yellow graphic in the editor as well?
Visit my Boulder Dash website at:
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Rockford4ever
- Posts: 152
- Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:41 pm
- Location: Belgium
Martijn:
1. Right - There was no music in the original version, but you can always turn it off if you want! I think it shouldn't be off for deafult though.
2. Sounds nasty, will try it out... Have you tried pressing the F5 key so you switch to focus the yellow player?
3. I don't notice this... But maybe you don't notice that the red thing is his toungue
4. Yes. Wow, that was short.
5. If you hear really good, you will hear a sound! It's 30.die.wav in the sounds directory. You can hear this good if you're time runs out.
6. Check the editor, now hold control and move over it: it's named grass there. It's just a graphical change because there was no grass in the original EM.
7. Yes, and there also is a bug with them: try taking a blue key in the EM graphics and you will have a green one in the statusbar and vice-versa.
8. I also noticed this. It's really not fitting with the other graphics in the editor.
1. Right - There was no music in the original version, but you can always turn it off if you want! I think it shouldn't be off for deafult though.
2. Sounds nasty, will try it out... Have you tried pressing the F5 key so you switch to focus the yellow player?
3. I don't notice this... But maybe you don't notice that the red thing is his toungue
4. Yes. Wow, that was short.
5. If you hear really good, you will hear a sound! It's 30.die.wav in the sounds directory. You can hear this good if you're time runs out.
6. Check the editor, now hold control and move over it: it's named grass there. It's just a graphical change because there was no grass in the original EM.
7. Yes, and there also is a bug with them: try taking a blue key in the EM graphics and you will have a green one in the statusbar and vice-versa.
8. I also noticed this. It's really not fitting with the other graphics in the editor.
About 3: no, there is certainly something wrong in the animation sequence.
new bug:
9. in E.M.C. Mine 3 (no GFX), level 9, you can see that the animation of a rock coming out of quicksand is still wrong. It has to fall out of it becoming increasingly visible, but now it pops out at once!
new bug:
9. in E.M.C. Mine 3 (no GFX), level 9, you can see that the animation of a rock coming out of quicksand is still wrong. It has to fall out of it becoming increasingly visible, but now it pops out at once!
Visit my Boulder Dash website at:
http://www.bd-fans.com
Watch my avatar! That orange little thing is Murphy, the Supaplex star!
http://www.bd-fans.com
Watch my avatar! That orange little thing is Murphy, the Supaplex star!