Now, old and new graphics are mixed. The grass for example, looks older than the spaceship. It might be better to play the levels either in their original old graphics or with the newer rnd graphics (last only with the rnd engine), but NOT a mix of them.
more bugs (probably):
1. While snapping sand (grass) you see a standing Rockford and while snapping emeralds/diamonds, you see him walking!
2. downunder mine 13: level 12: the magic walls are activated before doing anything! is that normal?
pre-3.2.0
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Last edited by Martijn on Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I suppose it's not possible at the moment to use the original graphics, as they weren't supplied along with the engine. The only original gfx for me is the 'grass'. As we can see, this causes a whole lot of graphic bugs, which is not a bad thing - I'm sure many players (possibly also me) will prefer a nice RnD gfx instead...
Martijn, could you please make a little note (like *edit* etc.) when you edit your posts? I nearly oversaw your additions there! :-/
> But I wonder: does the new em engine mean that I have to play all levels twice?
The original R'n'D engine and the new native EM engine are not compatible, so you can not simply play tapes recorded for levels played with the R'n'D engine for new levels that require the EM engine, even if they look the same. But maybe I should cause R'n'D tapes to force replaying even native EM levels with the R'n'D engine. As some EM levels were not correctly converted, this might not work with every level, so maybe it's not a good idea...
> a question: is it already possible to play with the real graphics then?
Yes, and it looks a lot better than using the R'n'D graphics at the moment, because some things are a bit buggy when using the R'n'D graphics with the native EM engine now. But I hope this will get better.
> if yes, where then? or is that in the coming version (3.2.0)?
The new EMC levels are only a snapshot of what's coming; I haven't converted all graphics yet, and haven't written all corresponding "graphicsinfo.conf" files, which is a lot of work.
But it has the positive effect that I get bug reports for the EM engine / R'n'D graphics combination. ;-) (With the original EM graphics, it would probably just work fine, and I won't get these bugs fixed.)
> and you can only turn on/off block behind player in the level editor as far as I know.
This is something that works only in the R'n'D engine. I should probably remove all settings that do not work in native engines when they are selected -- I must admit that this is confusing at the moment.
> But I wonder: does the new em engine mean that I have to play all levels twice?
The original R'n'D engine and the new native EM engine are not compatible, so you can not simply play tapes recorded for levels played with the R'n'D engine for new levels that require the EM engine, even if they look the same. But maybe I should cause R'n'D tapes to force replaying even native EM levels with the R'n'D engine. As some EM levels were not correctly converted, this might not work with every level, so maybe it's not a good idea...
> a question: is it already possible to play with the real graphics then?
Yes, and it looks a lot better than using the R'n'D graphics at the moment, because some things are a bit buggy when using the R'n'D graphics with the native EM engine now. But I hope this will get better.
> if yes, where then? or is that in the coming version (3.2.0)?
The new EMC levels are only a snapshot of what's coming; I haven't converted all graphics yet, and haven't written all corresponding "graphicsinfo.conf" files, which is a lot of work.
But it has the positive effect that I get bug reports for the EM engine / R'n'D graphics combination. ;-) (With the original EM graphics, it would probably just work fine, and I won't get these bugs fixed.)
> and you can only turn on/off block behind player in the level editor as far as I know.
This is something that works only in the R'n'D engine. I should probably remove all settings that do not work in native engines when they are selected -- I must admit that this is confusing at the moment.
> Now, old and new graphics are mixed. The grass for example, looks older than the spaceship.
> It might be better to play the levels either in their original old graphics or with the newer rnd
> graphics (last only with the rnd engine), but NOT a mix of them.
You're right, of course. I just had no time yet to create R'n'D style graphics for the new EMC elements.
About the bug reports, I'll write a summary later when I have checked (and maybe fixed) them...
> It might be better to play the levels either in their original old graphics or with the newer rnd
> graphics (last only with the rnd engine), but NOT a mix of them.
You're right, of course. I just had no time yet to create R'n'D style graphics for the new EMC elements.
About the bug reports, I'll write a summary later when I have checked (and maybe fixed) them...
> I suppose it's not possible at the moment to use the original graphics, as they weren't supplied
> along with the engine.
Not with the pre-3.2.0 engine and test package, if you mean that. But I'll update that test package soon to also contain the original graphics for those sets.
> The only original gfx for me is the 'grass'. As we can see, this causes a
> whole lot of graphic bugs, which is not a bad thing - I'm sure many players (possibly also me)
> will prefer a nice RnD gfx instead...
Yup. I'll provide it as soon as possible -- the final 3.2.0 won't contain such "old school" graphics (with double pixels), of course. :-)
> along with the engine.
Not with the pre-3.2.0 engine and test package, if you mean that. But I'll update that test package soon to also contain the original graphics for those sets.
> The only original gfx for me is the 'grass'. As we can see, this causes a
> whole lot of graphic bugs, which is not a bad thing - I'm sure many players (possibly also me)
> will prefer a nice RnD gfx instead...
Yup. I'll provide it as soon as possible -- the final 3.2.0 won't contain such "old school" graphics (with double pixels), of course. :-)
Ok, I will write down 'edit'.
But where can you choose "play this levelset with rnd engine or with EM engine"?
or are you just going to realease 2 emc directories: one to be played with the rnd engine and one with the em engine?
seems unhandy...
But where can you choose "play this levelset with rnd engine or with EM engine"?
or are you just going to realease 2 emc directories: one to be played with the rnd engine and one with the em engine?
seems unhandy...
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> But where can you choose "play this levelset with rnd engine or with EM engine"?
This cannot be set for level sets, but only for single levels -- see the "info" screen in the level editor.
> or are you just going to realease 2 emc directories: one to be played with the rnd engine and
> one with the em engine?
Although technically possible, it seems to be no good idea. After all, all these EMC levels are designed for the EM engine, not for the R'n'D engine, so it won't make much sense to play them with the R'n'D engine, now that the EM engine is available.
This cannot be set for level sets, but only for single levels -- see the "info" screen in the level editor.
> or are you just going to realease 2 emc directories: one to be played with the rnd engine and
> one with the em engine?
Although technically possible, it seems to be no good idea. After all, all these EMC levels are designed for the EM engine, not for the R'n'D engine, so it won't make much sense to play them with the R'n'D engine, now that the EM engine is available.
Good News
------------------------------------------------
- With other EM levels on different levels, they have elements in EM levels instead on the RnD editor.
For Example,
(Mirco Mines) or (Forgotten Mine) with a extra element, FAKE_GRASS. (This element is not on the editor.)
and the Bad News is...
------------------------------------------------
Bugs
- in EM levels, delay scrolls on elements on the levels, too bumpy
- with Forgotton Mine Items, they won't work well, The MAGNIFIER doesn't work Seeing FAKE_GRASS and the LENSES work/don't work on something.
------------------------------------------------
- With other EM levels on different levels, they have elements in EM levels instead on the RnD editor.
For Example,
(Mirco Mines) or (Forgotten Mine) with a extra element, FAKE_GRASS. (This element is not on the editor.)
and the Bad News is...
------------------------------------------------
Bugs
- in EM levels, delay scrolls on elements on the levels, too bumpy
- with Forgotton Mine Items, they won't work well, The MAGNIFIER doesn't work Seeing FAKE_GRASS and the LENSES work/don't work on something.
Holger wrote:Although technically possible, it seems to be no good idea. After all, all these EMC levels are designed for the EM engine, not for the R'n'D engine, so it won't make much sense to play them with the R'n'D engine, now that the EM engine is available.
But I hope you keep the rnd graphics for the contributions? I'm working on an rnd engined emerald mine levelset with just the elements from the rnd editor...
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Well today, i released my amiga 500 from it's dust collecting
duties.
It still works. It took me more than 2 hours, to get the pc adf file
into an amiga disk.
I just wanted to test/compare the key responsiveness.
(Was the amiga really more playable than the em engine in dnd
or was it my imagination?)
I mainly tested: emerald mine 3 pro - level 5.
Editor: headcrash, no-one-inc.
(Is this emc or em? How can i tell the difference?
Does it matter for this subject?)
In this level you just have to be quick.
My conclusion stays the same:
The delay (if present, and this must be the case i suppose) isn't really annoying, allthough it isn't as fast as dnd.
I tried to produce a techincal explanation for the 'hampering' but i can't.
It feels like playing with a 5% chance of not getting you movement processed. I think you just have to play this or a similar level to 'feel' the difference. Even with winuae i'm better off eventhough it's less responsive as native amiga.
Unfortunately i can only play with a joystick on the amiga, but it doesn't really mather because of winuae with keyboard also works.
Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing up and down).
Conclusion, you have to play to notice that there is a difference.
[offtopic]
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[/offtopic]
duties.
It still works. It took me more than 2 hours, to get the pc adf file
into an amiga disk.
I just wanted to test/compare the key responsiveness.
(Was the amiga really more playable than the em engine in dnd
or was it my imagination?)
I mainly tested: emerald mine 3 pro - level 5.
Editor: headcrash, no-one-inc.
(Is this emc or em? How can i tell the difference?
Does it matter for this subject?)
In this level you just have to be quick.
My conclusion stays the same:
The delay (if present, and this must be the case i suppose) isn't really annoying, allthough it isn't as fast as dnd.
I tried to produce a techincal explanation for the 'hampering' but i can't.
It feels like playing with a 5% chance of not getting you movement processed. I think you just have to play this or a similar level to 'feel' the difference. Even with winuae i'm better off eventhough it's less responsive as native amiga.
Unfortunately i can only play with a joystick on the amiga, but it doesn't really mather because of winuae with keyboard also works.
Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing up and down).
Conclusion, you have to play to notice that there is a difference.
[offtopic]
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click -> click -> have a laugh
[/offtopic]
well, why don't we start a poll about the movement then? I'd rather have a more flexible controlling but that's my opinion and I have no amiga experience...
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> (Is this emc or em? How can i tell the difference?
Usually, the EM games have brown "dirt" to dig through, while EMC games have green "grass".
Another way to tell the difference is to push a rock over a longer horizontal distance -- in the (original) EM engine, the moves are randomly delayed, while the (original) EMC engine uses always the same delay.
> Does it matter for this subject?)
Well, only a bit. Most (all?) Emerald Mine Club disks use the EMC engine, while the original Kingsoft game uses the EM engine (of course). For R'n'D, best would be to have both engines correctly emulated, even if they don't differ much.
> It feels like playing with a 5% chance of not getting you movement processed.
When I think about this: It may be possible that the original game "remembers" each attempt to move, and really make the move when the time window for moving has arrived, while the current EM engine in R'n'D may "forget" the attempt to move, and only moves the player when the corresponding key was held down at the exakt time (when the "moving time window" is active). This is something that could probably be changed and that may help here.
> Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing
> up and down).
You mean "em3pro" == "the original Amiga disk" and "em engine" == "the new EM engine in R'n'D" here, right? Just to get things right and to be sure that I understand you right here.
> Conclusion, you have to play to notice that there is a difference.
I have played a lot of original EMC disks in UAE recently, but I will again try to concentrate on the delays when moving.
Usually, the EM games have brown "dirt" to dig through, while EMC games have green "grass".
Another way to tell the difference is to push a rock over a longer horizontal distance -- in the (original) EM engine, the moves are randomly delayed, while the (original) EMC engine uses always the same delay.
> Does it matter for this subject?)
Well, only a bit. Most (all?) Emerald Mine Club disks use the EMC engine, while the original Kingsoft game uses the EM engine (of course). For R'n'D, best would be to have both engines correctly emulated, even if they don't differ much.
> It feels like playing with a 5% chance of not getting you movement processed.
When I think about this: It may be possible that the original game "remembers" each attempt to move, and really make the move when the time window for moving has arrived, while the current EM engine in R'n'D may "forget" the attempt to move, and only moves the player when the corresponding key was held down at the exakt time (when the "moving time window" is active). This is something that could probably be changed and that may help here.
> Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing
> up and down).
You mean "em3pro" == "the original Amiga disk" and "em engine" == "the new EM engine in R'n'D" here, right? Just to get things right and to be sure that I understand you right here.
> Conclusion, you have to play to notice that there is a difference.
I have played a lot of original EMC disks in UAE recently, but I will again try to concentrate on the delays when moving.
After sorting this out:
> Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing
> up and down).
Do you think that it should be possible to walk diagonally in the new EM engine (like with "normal" R'n'D levels), even though this wasn't possible with the original Amiga engine? I think this should not cause any real compatibility problems, but would probably improve the gameplay a lot. Any comments by others on this one?
> I think (and hope) you're also right about the "forget" part!
> That would improve playability, without sacrafising compatability.
Yeah, I also think so. I'll check this and see what I can do about it! :-)
> Furthermore, you can't walk 'diagonal' in em3pro, while you can in the em engine. (Pressing
> up and down).
Do you think that it should be possible to walk diagonally in the new EM engine (like with "normal" R'n'D levels), even though this wasn't possible with the original Amiga engine? I think this should not cause any real compatibility problems, but would probably improve the gameplay a lot. Any comments by others on this one?
> I think (and hope) you're also right about the "forget" part!
> That would improve playability, without sacrafising compatability.
Yeah, I also think so. I'll check this and see what I can do about it! :-)