Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

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BryanFRitt
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Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by BryanFRitt » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:46 pm

I noticed this with Supaplex 96 but it is possible this could also apply to other levelsets

For Supaplex 96 which is supposed to be a mirror of the classic Supaplex levels, the Electrons and the Snik Snaks don't kill Murphy on touch like in the classic ones.
For Supaplex 96 gravity doesn't get turned on/off, like the classic ones
(Changing these might mess up playing from some previously saved tapes)

Here are the one's I couldn't beat, How to beat them? Is it possible?

both CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX, and SUPAPLEX 96
100 IQ! - Not enough red disks that are usable? Extra blockage that shouldn't be there?
105 One's Missing - How to unblock exit? (, etc...?)

SUPAPLEX - SUPAPLEX 96 (The mirror of CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX)
076 ALL THE FAMILY! - The Zonks fall in a way that doesn't permit winning the same way as the level it's mirroring
093 Timing! - Tried to beat in the same way I did in the classic, but things seam to fall at different rates?, Murphy's relative speed? or am I doing something different?
101 ON-OFF! - Gravity issues?

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Holger
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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by Holger » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 pm

Yes, you're right -- all these problems with the level set "Supaplex 96" (and all other Supaplex level sets from the old Supaplex level colletion download from the "Levels" page) are due to the fact that the levels in these sets are still converted levels in R'n'D format from a time where the native Supaplex game engine did not exist in R'n'D yet. As a result, all these Supaplex levels are still played with the R'n'D game engine and not with the native Supaplex game engine available in R'n'D since some years. This causes some levels to behave slightly different, especially all those "bugs and tricks" in the original Supaplex game engine did not work in the R'n'D game engine (which otherwise can play Supaplex levels, too).

The original Supaplex level set from the "Classic Original Games" collection uses the native SP engine and therefore can be played 100% like in the original Supaplex game (including all "bugs and tricks" from the original game).

I already have an updated Supaplex level collection available, which I still haven't managed to release as an update to that old download... I will try to release it in January 2018! :-)

Therefore, to answer your questions: All Supaplex levels from the "Classic Original Games" collection are 100% solvable, while levels from the Supaplex level collection download may be unsolvable due to differences in the way those levels are played in the R'n'D and the Supaplex game engine.

The new Supaplex level collection will also contain the "demo" (tape) data for showing how to solve a level (solution tapes).

I wish you all a happy new year! :-D

BryanFRitt
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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by BryanFRitt » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:48 am

Holger wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 pm
Yes, you're right -- all these problems with the level set "Supaplex 96" (and all other Supaplex level sets from the old Supaplex level colletion download from the "Levels" page) are due to the fact that the levels in these sets are still converted levels in R'n'D format from a time where the native Supaplex game engine did not exist in R'n'D yet. As a result, all these Supaplex levels are still played with the R'n'D game engine and not with the native Supaplex game engine available in R'n'D since some years. This causes some levels to behave slightly different, especially all those "bugs and tricks" in the original Supaplex game engine did not work in the R'n'D game engine (which otherwise can play Supaplex levels, too).

The original Supaplex level set from the "Classic Original Games" collection uses the native SP engine and therefore can be played 100% like in the original Supaplex game (including all "bugs and tricks" from the original game).
Thanks I was wondering why it different. :)
Holger wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 pm
I already have an updated Supaplex level collection available, which I still haven't managed to release as an update to that old download... I will try to release it in January 2018! :-)

Therefore, to answer your questions: All Supaplex levels from the "Classic Original Games" collection are 100% solvable, while levels from the Supaplex level collection download may be unsolvable due to differences in the way those levels are played in the R'n'D and the Supaplex game engine.

The new Supaplex level collection will also contain the "demo" (tape) data for showing how to solve a level (solution tapes).

I wish you all a happy new year! :-D
BryanFRitt wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:17 pm
Looks like Supaplex has more levels than then one downloadable from the Rocks and Diamonds site
9,10,11,12, 27, 92,93,94
http://www.elmerproductions.com/sp/levels.html
Guessing all the 'empty' levels are ones that would be incompatible?
Will the updated Supaplex level collection include all the ones from the elmerproductions page? (and more, if there is any?)(1-12,27,92-99; any idea on why they are numbered this way?)
Looking forward towards seeing how to beat the levels I couldn't.

On the Rocks'n'Diamonds homepage, and/or download page there I think there should be a link to it's downloadable levels, but I didn't see one.
http://www.artsoft.org/rocksndiamonds/levels/

Happy new year! :-D, and good luck on all your January 2018+ goals.

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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by Holger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:55 pm

Will the updated Supaplex level collection include all the ones from the elmerproductions page?
Yes! It will contain level sets 1-12,27,77,78,92-99. (No idea about the origin of the numbering scheme...)
Guessing all the 'empty' levels are ones that would be incompatible?
No, I think they simply never existed... If it's not on www.elmerproductions.com (which is a fairly complete Supaplex ressource), it probably never existed. :-)
On the Rocks'n'Diamonds homepage, and/or download page there I think there should be a link to it's downloadable levels, but I didn't see one.
You mean the "Levels & Artwork" entry in the "☰" menu is not enough? Maybe you're right that I could also point to the "Levels" page from the "Download" page... And with "homepage" you mean the "About" page? Oh well, I always wanted to create a "real" homepage for R'n'D, but currently it jumps directly to the "News" page... :-/

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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by Holger » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Update:
(No idea about the origin of the numbering scheme...)
The "levels" page on www.elmerproductions.com has an explanation for the numbering:

"The next (small) list contains special levelsets (changed levels, unverified levels, converted levels)."

This refers to level sets 92 to 99.

Update 2:

The new Supaplex collection will also contain two sets about "tricks" (bugs) and "cheats" and another set "MZ levels".

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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by BryanFRitt » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:58 am

Holger wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Guessing all the 'empty' levels are ones that would be incompatible?
No, I think they simply never existed... If it's not on www.elmerproductions.com (which is a fairly complete Supaplex ressource), it probably never existed. :-)
Maybe the levels numbers that were skipped existed at some point at least in spirit, but were later removed, or never added for whatever reason?
Holger wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:55 pm
On the Rocks'n'Diamonds homepage, and/or download page there I think there should be a link to it's downloadable levels, but I didn't see one.
You mean the "Levels & Artwork" entry in the "☰" menu is not enough? Maybe you're right that I could also point to the "Levels" page from the "Download" page... And with "homepage" you mean the "About" page? Oh well, I always wanted to create a "real" homepage for R'n'D, but currently it jumps directly to the "News" page... :-/
Thanks, I see the link now... :)
Holger wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:14 pm
Yes, you're right -- all these problems with the level set "Supaplex 96" (and all other Supaplex level sets from the old Supaplex level colletion download from the "Levels" page) are due to the fact that the levels in these sets are still converted levels in R'n'D format from a time where the native Supaplex game engine did not exist in R'n'D yet. As a result, all these Supaplex levels are still played with the R'n'D game engine and not with the native Supaplex game engine available in R'n'D since some years. This causes some levels to behave slightly different, especially all those "bugs and tricks" in the original Supaplex game engine did not work in the R'n'D game engine (which otherwise can play Supaplex levels, too).
Do you have the source code of the game?
As far as I know, the source code to the game has been lost 'in history'. Probably it was on someone's computer at some time, and did not get transferred to a new computer when it was replaced. If there were any backups, I am not aware of them and they have probably also been lost or deteriorated.
The changes made to the game in the SpeedFix version, have all been made with a lot of effort to the disassembled code of the game. Needless to say this is quite complicated at times as there are no meaningful variable or function names to work with. (Note that also in relation to the question above, I cannot give away any disassembled SpeedFix-related code that may still linger somewhere on my computer or in a backup).
http://www.elmerproductions.com/sp/faq.html
If you have the Supaplex source code, maybe you could give them a copy.

BryanFRitt
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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by BryanFRitt » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:15 am

BryanFRitt wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:46 pm
Here are the one's I couldn't beat, How to beat them? Is it possible?

both CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX, and SUPAPLEX 96
100 IQ! - Not enough red disks that are usable? Extra blockage that shouldn't be there?
105 One's Missing - How to unblock exit? (, etc...?)

SUPAPLEX - SUPAPLEX 96 (The mirror of CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX)
076 ALL THE FAMILY! - The Zonks fall in a way that doesn't permit winning the same way as the level it's mirroring
093 Timing! - Tried to beat in the same way I did in the classic, but things seam to fall at different rates?, Murphy's relative speed? or am I doing something different?
101 ON-OFF! - Gravity issues?
Update: I've gone back and beaten 100 and 105, for both 'CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX', and 'SUPAPLEX 96', so now I've beaten all the 'CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX' ones. :)
Just 076, 093, and 101, of SUPAPLEX 96 in Rocks'n'Diamonds that I didn't solve, probably due to game engine issues, or something.

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Re: Trying to beat Supaplex sets, Classic and 96... Gravity, and Snik Snak/Electron touch

Post by Holger » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:03 am

Regarding the site navigation on "www.artsoft.org", maybe it's indeed too minimalistic and I should re-add some more visible navigation like in the old (previous) version of the web site (that had an always visible sidebar navigation)...?
If you have the Supaplex source code, maybe you could give them a copy.
I do not have the source code of the original Supaplex, but only the source code of Megaplex, which I got from Frank Schindler for porting the game engine to R'n'D, but he asked me not to give away the Megaplex source code.

(The Megaplex source code is based on Herman Perk's SpeedFix disassembly of Supaplex, which Frank Schindler took to accurately re-create all assembler directives in VisualBasic. To get it into R'n'D, I wrote a simple VisualBasic-to-C translator in Perl, which created compilable C code, so the resulting code only needed some refinement and integration into R'n'D afterwards. Therefore, the native Supaplex game engine in R'n'D is indeed as compatible (100%) as the original Supaplex game, which can be proved by playing the available solution "demo" files for all Supaplex sets and levels. (In fact, the SP engine in R'n'D is even more compatible than Megaplex, as I added emulation for "illegally" moving the player off the screen (when possible), then "moving" through bytes of the Supaplex DOS process space. There are a few example Supaplex levels which can only be solved using such dirty tricks.))
Update: I've gone back and beaten 100 and 105, for both 'CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX', and 'SUPAPLEX 96', so now I've beaten all the 'CLASSIC ORIGINAL GAMES - SUPAPLEX' ones.
That's impressive! Congratulations! :-D
Just 076, 093, and 101, of SUPAPLEX 96 in Rocks'n'Diamonds that I didn't solve, probably due to game engine issues, or something.
Yes, they should then be solvable with the re-released native level formats.

I'm impressed how many Supaplex levels still work fine when played with the R'n'D engine (with Supaplex game elements) instead of the "real" (native) Supaplex game engine, but I think it says more about the quality of the Supaplex levels which were designed to be playable and solvable without too many "dirty" tricks. :-)

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